Zodiac DNA being worked on by SFPD & VALLEJO PD

[Marshall]

One thing LE could do rather easily if they have a good sample, is eliminate suspects. They could compare what they have to close relatives in the family trees of known suspects. That effort would assume LE thinks the list of possible Z suspects that has been developed by LE and amateurs is a worthwhile place to start.

Start with George Saxberg's daughter, Fred Manalli's sister, other cooperative relatives, and then dive into whatever DNA databases they can still access.

[sandy betts]

The lab at SFPD has had a good enough sample that has been used to eliminate three top suspects back in the 1990's. I doubt they will waste their time and money to investigate suspects that are not good enough to test.

Just because someone thinks their suspect is Zodiac isn't good enough, detectives need some actual proof / real evidence.

Another way to do it , is get your suspects DNA tested, make copies of it and send it to the detectives working the case.

[Simplicity]

Or send the profile to me, i’ll launch it in all the right places and can facilitate any research you want.

Also that 1990’s sample i understand was of low quality and confidence due to its origins (correct me if
i am wrong) never the less the coding system in the 90’s that produced such results is not compatible nor useful and only a new test would suffice.

[sandy betts]

Or send the profile to me, i’ll launch it in all the right places and can facilitate any research you want.

Also that 1990’s sample i understand was of low quality and confidence due to its origins (correct me if
i am wrong) never the less the coding system in the 90’s that produced such results is not compatible nor useful and only a new test would suffice.

That is what we have been lead to believe. I spoke to SFPD Lab Tech Pam Hofsass in person several yrs ago at a meeting about the Zodiac case. She told me she was confidant in the partial DNA sample she had and that in time with new technology it would improve. She said it was a good enough sample to be used to eliminate suspects and that it had been used already to eliminate three suspects. That was when I asked her if she had tested the gloves? The look in her face told me that was the first time she was told about the gloves. She did finally find them and tested them to find two male DNA , one was Stines on the outside of the gloves and another DNA on the inside. That of course must be the killers DNA.

I have several articles that I would like to have tested , that were left for me by my suspect. One being a dictionary that has what looks like blood on it, that was put in my car in Napa along with the killing costume , just one or two days after the Lake Berryessa stabbings. ( Before it was announced in the paper ) So no way could a copy cat have put that there! Later letters and notes in Z like writing and other articles that would have his DNA on them. I gave SFPD a glass that my Honcho suspect drank a Bloody Mary out of, which would have not only his handprint , but his DNA. They didn't care enough to test it or to listen to the voice recording I gave them of him saying "Sorry I missed you, don't worry, we will get together soon". To the average person that recording means nothing, but if it is indeed from the Zodiac, it was a warning! His saying sorry he missed me was about his shot at me that missed my head by a couple of inches, through my bedroom window in broad daylight!

[jacob]

Or send the profile to me, i’ll launch it in all the right places and can facilitate any research you want.

Also that 1990’s sample i understand was of low quality and confidence due to its origins (correct me if
i am wrong) never the less the coding system in the 90’s that produced such results is not compatible nor useful and only a new test would suffice.

That is what we have been lead to believe. I spoke to SFPD Lab Tech Pam Hofsass in person several yrs ago at a meeting about the Zodiac case. She told me she was confidant in the partial DNA sample she had and that in time with new technology it would improve.

Great to know, Sandy. It's over 50 years now since the canonical victims were robbed of their lives. I pray we see an arrest or identification in 2020.

[Simplicity]

Does anyone have any knowledge about the DNA database used by the department of defence for identifying MIA/POW soldiers?

Things like how big the database is? do they retain physical dna samples?

I don’t want to tell my American friends what to do but IF they have DNA believed to be the Zodiacs they should probably start there, there is plenty in this case to suggest he was military.

I’m not suggesting he was anything or anyone rather such a database is invaluable.

[Marshall]

Please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption. Suppose LE has a good sample, and therefore a DNA sequence. If they can still access a large DNA registry, as was done to identify GSK, can't they just run a database query to find the closest match and then use that as a starting point?

I think of the universe.... a DNA fairly close match might put you in the right galaxy, maybe even the right star system, but equally important, it would eliminate all the parts of the universe that were too distant. They might not need a suspect's DNA to eliminate him - if their Z sample is pointing in a certain direction (nationality, for instance) that is not where that suspect's relatives reside in the DNA tree. So if the DNA they have is too dissimilar to the third cousin of a major suspect, for example, then maybe it can be established that Z and that suspect are not related.

What I'm saying is, if LE has a good DNA sequence for Z, and if they have access to one or several large databases with family tree DNA sequences, couldn't a query point them in a general direction that would simultaneously point them away from many of our favorite suspects?

[masootz]

Please, someone, correct me if I'm wrong in this assumption. Suppose LE has a good sample, and therefore a DNA sequence. If they can still access a large DNA registry, as was done to identify GSK, can't they just run a database query to find the closest match and then use that as a starting point?

I think of the universe.... a DNA fairly close match might put you in the right galaxy, maybe even the right star system, but equally important, it would eliminate all the parts of the universe that were too distant. They might not need a suspect's DNA to eliminate him - if their Z sample is pointing in a certain direction (nationality, for instance) that is not where that suspect's relatives reside in the DNA tree. So if the DNA they have is too dissimilar to the third cousin of a major suspect, for example, then maybe it can be established that Z and that suspect are not related.

What I'm saying is, if LE has a good DNA sequence for Z, and if they have access to one or several large databases with family tree DNA sequences, couldn't a query point them in a general direction that would simultaneously point them away from many of our favorite suspects?

it's a little more complicated than that. they were using gedmatch which recently shut out law enforcement from using their database without a warrant. even with gedmatch you only had a few million dna profiles so you're hoping to hit on one that matches enough to be a distant cousin. then the legwork of doing the family tree for this distant cousin to see who down the line might match what you know about your suspect - sometimes it's "there's a branch of the cousin's tree that lived in the same state we think our suspect lives in", other times it's "there is a last name associated with the branch of the tree our suspect is in, so we want to find similar last named suspects". it's not easy work, there isn't always the right dna profile to find a close enough familial link, and even when there is there's no guarantee you're going to be able to track down every branch of the subsequent family tree.

[mike_r]

Hi,

I was watching a cold case show out of Massachusetts last night. Parabon did a phenotype sketch of the individual from DNA recovered form a crime scene in 1992. It took a year and a half to do! I have no idea if a)any authentic DNA from the letters that might have been recovered by VPD would be complete enough to do such an analysis and b) if they were able to recover matching samples of same DNA from different letters (hopefully, unlike SFPD's mess!) in order to know that such potential DNA is actually from the letter writer but this cryptic announcement by Voigt and Morf that there will be "news" in 2020 may have to do with how long it seems to take Parabon to make the sketch.

I had no idea about it taking that long, at least in the Massachusetts case, until last night. So I guess this is a possibility to consider.

Mike

[Dag MacLugh]

Question: what physical characteristics, if any, can be assumed from a DNA profile?