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If John Sullivan won't provide DNA, a private investigator could follow him to public restaurants or coffee shops. When John leaves behind a cup, glass or straw at the table, it could be retrieved and then DNA tested. Then John's DNA sample could compared with the partial DNA on Bates' capri pants, the Stine gloves and the partial profile from the postage stamp.

solvethemystery wrote:If John Sullivan won't provide DNA, a private investigator could follow him to public restaurants or coffee shops. When John leaves behind a cup, glass or straw at the table, it could be retrieved and then DNA tested. Then John's DNA sample could compared with the partial DNA on Bates' capri pants, the Stine gloves and the partial profile from the postage stamp.

Or they could just collect his trash.

morf13 wrote:I think that DNA from Cheri's pants whether it belonged to Ross, or somebody else, could be an important find

Morf, do you know if they detected enough DNA to rule someone in or out ?

monarch wrote:

morf13 wrote:I think that DNA from Cheri's pants whether it belonged to Ross, or somebody else, could be an important find

Morf, do you know if they detected enough DNA to rule someone in or out ?

The lady who extracted DNA for the History Channel was quite confident the sample would be enough to do whatever they needed done.

MMSox wrote:I’m assuming that would be enough for everyone to agree he killed her, but would it be enough for you to move him to the top of your Zodiac suspect list given that, the sketch, similar handwriting, etc?

If DNA consistent with Ross' familial DNA is identified on Bates' capri pants, it would be a watershed moment. Law enforcement and the FBI would seize any relevant records about Ross, including psychiatric records, medical records, prescription drug records, gun registration records, motor vehicle records, criminal records, school records, employment records, tax records etc. There would also be interrogations of Ross' family members and associates.

The net impact of finding consistent DNA on Bates' pants is that it will help fill in many gaps about Ross and his whereabouts throughout the years. And the additional information could offer some tangible proof that he was also the Zodiac.

solvethemystery wrote:

MMSox wrote:I’m assuming that would be enough for everyone to agree he killed her, but would it be enough for you to move him to the top of your Zodiac suspect list given that, the sketch, similar handwriting, etc?

If DNA consistent with Ross' familial DNA is identified on Bates' capri pants, it would be a watershed moment. Law enforcement and the FBI would seize any relevant records about Ross, including psychiatric records, medical records, prescription drug records, gun registration records, motor vehicle records, criminal records, school records, employment records, tax records etc. There would also be interrogations of Ross' family members and associates.

The net impact of finding consistent DNA on Bates' pants is that it will help fill in many gaps about Ross and his whereabouts throughout the years. And the additional information could offer some tangible proof that he was also the Zodiac.

The problem is, Ross is dead and was cremated. They would need to go out and test DNA from a willing family member to compare to the Bates/Zodiac cases. Any DNA on Cheri's pants could certainly belong to her killer. Whether the killer was Ross, or Zodiac, wouldn't be known without a match. Then again, don't forget, Cheri may have been killed by somebody other than Zodiac, but Zodiac likely still wrote the letters in her case

morf13 wrote:

solvethemystery wrote:

MMSox wrote:I’m assuming that would be enough for everyone to agree he killed her, but would it be enough for you to move him to the top of your Zodiac suspect list given that, the sketch, similar handwriting, etc?

If DNA consistent with Ross' familial DNA is identified on Bates' capri pants, it would be a watershed moment. Law enforcement and the FBI would seize any relevant records about Ross, including psychiatric records, medical records, prescription drug records, gun registration records, motor vehicle records, criminal records, school records, employment records, tax records etc. There would also be interrogations of Ross' family members and associates.

The net impact of finding consistent DNA on Bates' pants is that it will help fill in many gaps about Ross and his whereabouts throughout the years. And the additional information could offer some tangible proof that he was also the Zodiac.

The problem is, Ross is dead and was cremated. They would need to go out and test DNA from a willing family member to compare to the Bates/Zodiac cases. Any DNA on Cheri's pants could certainly belong to her killer. Whether the killer was Ross, or Zodiac, wouldn't be known without a match. Then again, don't forget, Cheri may have been killed by somebody other than Zodiac, but Zodiac likely still wrote the letters in her case

Agreed. That's why I said consistent with Ross' familial DNA. A willing family member is not always necessary. If family members refuse, law enforcement could trail Ross' brother, for example, to a public restaurant or coffee shop and then after he leaves collect a cup he drank from and DNA test it.

Here's an article about the current legality of law enforcement seizing abandoned DNA at restaurants. https://www.bonappetit.com/restaurants- ... estaurants

If it is ultimately confirmed that DNA retrieved from Bates pants is consistent with Ross' familial DNA (via his brother, for example) to a high degree of certainty, I predict victim lawsuits against the mental institutions that treated Ross (whether they were state or private) for not keeping a schizophrenic murderer away from the public.

Zodiac's writings suggest narcissism. I think it's probable that if Ross was Zodiac, he would have kept momentos of the killings, weapons and newspaper clippings until the day he died. He thrived on outwitting law enforcement -- he was uncrackable -- and that fed his undernourished ego.

With a long death like cancer, Ross could have had time to consider throwing away his precious murder momentos. But Ross appears to have died unexpectedly. Perhaps he died in his sleep unexpectedly due to sleep apnea related to Pickwickian syndrome. It's easy to envision him weighing in excess of 400 pounds if he was extremely obese by 1977 and taking irregular breaths while sleeping. He probably larded up as a side effect of the meds they had him on to treat schizophrenia.

If Ross is the guilty party, I just find it hard to believe that -- even after his death -- someone such as a family member or psychiatric employee didn't come across a handgun, a bloody piece of shirt, news clippings etc. in his personal effects.

I've wondered what evidence led Tim Sullivan to believe his brother is the killer and why his wife won't talk about it. Obviously, Tim could look at the Stine sketch and see the resemblance in his brother. But did he observe any physical evidence that Ross owned that linked him to the killings? Did Ross tell him anything? Are any of Ross' family members aware of Ross ever owning or using a gun?

We know that Ross skinned sheep and attacked someone with a knife. So Ross owning a gun is not a stretch. How strict were gun regulations back in the 1960s preventing schizophrenics from purchasing firearms?

solvethemystery wrote:If it is ultimately confirmed that DNA retrieved from Bates pants is consistent with Ross' familial DNA (via his brother, for example) to a high degree of certainty, I predict victim lawsuits against the mental institutions that treated Ross (whether they were state or private) for not keeping a schizophrenic murderer away from the public.

Zodiac's writings suggest narcissism. I think it's probable that if Ross was Zodiac, he would have kept momentos of the killings, weapons and newspaper clippings until the day he died. He thrived on outwitting law enforcement -- he was uncrackable -- and that fed his undernourished ego.

With a long death like cancer, Ross could have had time to consider throwing away his precious murder momentos. But Ross appears to have died unexpectedly. Perhaps he died in his sleep unexpectedly due to sleep apnea related to Pickwickian syndrome. It's easy to envision him weighing in excess of 400 pounds if he was extremely obese by 1977 and taking irregular breaths while sleeping. He probably larded up as a side effect of the meds they had him on to treat schizophrenia.

If Ross is the guilty party, I just find it hard to believe that -- even after his death -- someone such as a family member or psychiatric employee didn't come across a handgun, a bloody piece of shirt, news clippings etc. in his personal effects.

I've wondered what evidence led Tim Sullivan to believe his brother is the killer and why his wife won't talk about it. Obviously, Tim could look at the Stine sketch and see the resemblance in his brother. But did he observe any physical evidence that Ross owned that linked him to the killings? Did Ross tell him anything? Are any of Ross' family members aware of Ross ever owning or using a gun?

We know that Ross skinned sheep and attacked someone with a knife. So Ross owning a gun is not a stretch. How strict were gun regulations back in the 1960s preventing schizophrenics from purchasing firearms?

Guns were pretty easy to obtain back in those days, they could be ordered via mail order and delivered to your home prior to
the 1968 gun control act (Z mentioned this in one of his letters)
I don't think there were any federal laws (in the 1960s) restricting firearm purchases by the mentally ill.

That's a hard question. Because in the reverse situation, if it was found that Ross didn't kill Cheri, then that wouldn't automatically disqualify him from being the Zodiac, for me and I'm sure for many others. Should a link between the two go both ways?

Let me ask you this, if someone other than Ross was found to have killed Cheri, like say it really was *******, would you believe that person was most likely the Zodiac? If you answered yes to the thread question, but no to this question, why is there a difference?