Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:30 amby morf13
duckking2001 wrote:Thanks Norse for elaborating on some of the problems with the assumption of Ross as Z but NOT as Bate's killer. Glad it's not just me that thinks that.
Someone, or Ross, could still be Zodiac and not Bates' killer. That is plausible. But anything that takes away from him as CJB killer suspect ALSO takes away from him as a Zodiac suspect. That was my point. That seems obvious.
I say again, if he wasn't a Bates suspect, we wouldn't think of him as a Zodiac suspect, even if he makes a good one on his own.
We will agree to disagree on this, I have always been on the fence thinking Z quite possibly did not kill Cheri, but on the other hand, I wholeheartedly think Z wrote the desktop poem & Bates letters,so Ross, or any other Suspect in Cheri's case getting ruled out as her killer, does NOT eliminate them as a Suspect in the Z case in my opinion
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:32 amby morf13
ophion1031 wrote:morf13 wrote:Well Norse, I am not a psychologist, I don't have any formal training, but it's possible Z was living in Riverside, and maybe had never killed before but had fantasized about it and such a grisly murder set him off to write a letter claiming responsibility until he could get his courage up to kill for himself. All serial killers start out someplace before they kill somebody. I could see Z evolving from a wannabe to the real deal. Good chance that Z didn't attack Kathleen Johns, but if true, it didn't stop him from taking credit from her attack. Same with Richard Radetich, etc....also quite likely that Z didn't kill the 37+ people he claims, yet he took credit for that number, so that certainly lines up with the Bates letters
Sorry to get off topic, but this is exactly how I feel about Fred Manalli, not having the courage to kill at first. I think he wrote the letters and then started killing in the early 70's - the Santa Rosa murders.
As far as Ross, who knows? He has to be the top CJB suspect, but there's just too many unknowns for the bay area Zodiac activity.
Every once in a while, I love to read Fred's writings, so amazingly similar to Zodiac's in subject matter, words, phrases,etc, ...okay sorry to go off topic with you
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:57 amby ophion1031
morf13 wrote:duckking2001 wrote:Thanks Norse for elaborating on some of the problems with the assumption of Ross as Z but NOT as Bate's killer. Glad it's not just me that thinks that.
Someone, or Ross, could still be Zodiac and not Bates' killer. That is plausible. But anything that takes away from him as CJB killer suspect ALSO takes away from him as a Zodiac suspect. That was my point. That seems obvious.
I say again, if he wasn't a Bates suspect, we wouldn't think of him as a Zodiac suspect, even if he makes a good one on his own.
We will agree to disagree on this, I have always been on the fence thinking Z quite possibly did not kill Cheri, but on the other hand, I wholeheartedly think Z wrote the desktop poem & Bates letters,so Ross, or any other Suspect in Cheri's case getting ruled out as her killer, does NOT eliminate them as a Suspect in the Z case in my opinion
Morf, have you compared the Bates letters to the letters Rand posted in the Troy Houghton thread? The letters sent to Jack Ruby. Sorry to get off topic again, but I think there's a good chance it is the same author and could even be Ross as we don't have any handwriting to compare to.
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:59 amby AK Wilks
Perhaps someone can find and bump the thread on the Bates killer and Riverside writer being the same person. IIRC it's pretty compelling. The middle wire distributor was not public knowledge at the time the letter was written. It did appear in a Long Beach newspaper eventually, but not in any local Riverside or even LA papers that anyone could ever find. [Edit: Coil wire and car disabled did appear in one local paper].The letter writer also mentioned a phone call, and in the FBI files Morf uncovered we finally got confirmation there was a phone call. More debatable but IMO the writer saying he kicked her in the head is consistent with the injuries described in the autopsy report.
So adding it all up, just from what I remember, the writer was correct about middle wire distributor, the phone call and the injuries. So I think the Bates killer was the letter writer and the letter writer likely Zodiac, based on 3 letters sent, word usage, stamp usage, handwriting, "twich" and several other things.
So for me Ross is eliminated as the Bates killer by alibi, fingerprints and hair color, then he is also eliminated as the Riverside writer. That IMO significantly affects his standing as a good suspect.
But lets find and revive the Bates killer = Riverside writer thread and continue the discussion there, and return this to Ross discussion.
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:13 pmby Norse
AK Wilks wrote:The letter writer also mentioned a phone call, and in the FBI files Morf uncovered we finally got confirmation there was a phone call.
I remember searching for that a while back, with no success: A link would be greatly appreciated. If that can be established 100% it would be very compelling. The middle wire/coil wire detail is still in the "inconclusive" bracket for me, since it
was published: The letter writer could have made the necessary inference even if the article was less specific.
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:52 pmby AK Wilks
Norse wrote:AK Wilks wrote:The letter writer also mentioned a phone call, and in the FBI files Morf uncovered we finally got confirmation there was a phone call.
I remember searching for that a while back, with no success: A link would be greatly appreciated. If that can be established 100% it would be very compelling. The middle wire/coil wire detail is still in the "inconclusive" bracket for me, since it
was published: The letter writer could have made the necessary inference even if the article was less specific.
I found it and bumped it in the Bates thread. The FBI says RPD told them the letter writer was correct about the middle wire, the injuries and most importantly the phone call to RPD happening. So IMO that seals it that the writer and the Bates killer were very likely to almost certainly one and the same.
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:12 pmby Norse
AK Wilks wrote:
I found it and bumped it in the Bates thread. The FBI says RPD told them the letter writer was correct about the phone call to RPD happening. So IMO that seals it that the writer and the Bates killer were one and the same.
Thanks, AK - much appreciated!
I will have a closer look.
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:19 pmby Paul_Averly
I can't find the article, but I think RPD figured out the confession was typed up at the RCC Library. This would mean both the
desktop and the confession could be linked to the library.
This heavily favors a local suspect who was confident returning to the library, using the RCC library to type up his confession, and not draw attention or be seen doing all this.
download/file.php?id=3475viewtopic.php?f=79&t=71&start=40
Re: Occam's Razor & Ross?
Posted:
Wed Mar 09, 2016 9:57 pmby snooter
Paul_Averly wrote:I can't find the article, but I think RPD figured out the confession was typed up at the RCC Library. This would mean both the
desktop and the confession could be linked to the library.
This heavily favors a local suspect who was confident returning to the library, using the RCC library to type up his confession, and not draw attention or be seen doing all this.
download/file.php?id=3475viewtopic.php?f=79&t=71&start=40
I agree with this...problem is it may not necissarily point to a student of rcc or rcc faculty or other employees...even 30 years ago my college library was open to anybody who wanted to research any particular topic....we had 100k population which means a near zero possibilty of us arm chair sleuths pin pointing a strong suspect....leo's would had to have conducted dozens upon dozens of interviews and with an open case we would not have been granted access to there findings (like what we face with cjb).......point well taken though..a local perp most logical to suspect... but the riverside area was a major player in auto sports which brought in thousands of people....i still like an ex student of rcc who graduated or transferred out of rcc and went to berkley...