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snooter wrote:
Personally the latest from riverside police has put a serious dent in ross as z...

Why? It's been clearly proven that whoever z was could have only did the writing in the Bates case and not necessarily killed Cheri

snooter wrote:Occams razor at this point would say ross is not the z..he can be placed at rcc in the time frame but thats it....there is no conclusive existing proof that can be used to tie in ross to z...again what is conclusive is ross can be placed at that library....ross is intresting and desrves his place on the poi list...until further evidence comes forth all we can do is speculate..

Personally the latest from riverside police has put a serious dent in ross as z...

By the way, if Occam says that Ross is likely not z, then it's even more highly unlikely that people like Ted K, Mr X, Allen and others are even less likely to be z

I feel as though I don't know where to stand regarding this.
On one hand, Occam's Razor would tell us that assuming that Z is any of the POI's this community has put forward would entail making too many assumptions as it is. Morf does make an interesting point regarding the implications of Ross not being Z. It would make those with even more tenuous connections seem much less likely. I did always have a problem with various POI's (I won't name any in particular as that isn't particularly relevant) requiring too many assumptions in order to make a good case for their involvement. It never felt right to try to make a suspect fit into the paradigm of Z knowledge.
This leads me to the other hand. Out of the POI's that I've seen mentioned (that had a relatively significant amount of research done in regards to their background), Ross Sullivan seems so be the one that continually tickles that part of your brain that thinks it may know something before you yourself may know. The line from the Z movie, "Just because you can't prove it doesn't mean it's not true" is what comes to mind. It reminds me of how I feel when I see a highly publicized trial and have a gut feeling about their guilt but a Not Guilty verdict is handed down. People often say that the prosecution couldn't prove their guilt beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not sure a prosecutor could prove Ross Sullivan guilty beyond a reasonable doubt today. I feel it's a dangerous thing to try to assume as truth something I can't indeed prove. It's why I'm an eternal fence-sitter for certain topics. However, I do feel that Ross does indeed have interesting connections to the case: the dead-on facial appearance, the mental illness, the (albeit somewhat controversial) Riverside connection, the handwriting essay. But, if we remember, Arthur Leigh Allen had a staggering number of interesting connections even though the handwriting and/or fingerprints ruled him out. I just still don't feel safe in assuming Ross was Z unless we can in fact disprove it. I suppose my position is similar to when someone has a hypothesis. The point is to disprove the hypothesis, not prove it, and if it ends up not being unproven, then maybe there's something there. Maybe my working hypothesis is, "Ross isn't Z," and I'm just waiting for someone to prove myself or anyone else wrong.
Secretly, though, a part of me wants to be proven right. I'll never forget the "What the actual hell?"-esque reaction I had upon reading about this guy.

morf13 wrote:

snooter wrote:
Personally the latest from riverside police has put a serious dent in ross as z...

Why? It's been clearly proven that whoever z was could have only did the writing in the Bates case and not necessarily killed Cheri

And that my friend is the intriguing aspect of ross...was there an emotional attachment ross felt to cheri...did her death lead him to seek out couples at first and ultimately did her death lead ross to conjur up the z persona...i dont have the answers..we all keep digging....

Well yea..x, tk, ala and all the rest have gaps to fill in..it could be z was so boring normal that nobody would have ever suspected his split personality..as norse has stated more than once..z may not be on any list at this time

To me, Occam's Razor all comes down to the desktop poem.
"the simplest explanation is usually the correct one"

So, if Z wrote it, then why would he be in that library?
It makes almost no sense for any of the other suspects. ALA was at a road race and stopped by to write that?? Why would Gyke be there? Or Mr X.
With Ross, it makes perfect sense.

If the same person who wrote that poem, was also the one who wrote the Z letters with Stine's shirt, then the desktop poem writer looks just like Ross.

So the question is what are the chances that someone looks like the composite and can be placed in the RCC library?

How many people look like the composite and how many people can be placed in the library? Who knows, but the answer to both are more than one, so is there really a basis for assuming that both of them together can only be one? I don't know.

The lynch pin is really the idea that Z wrote the desktop poem. If you are willing to entertain that he did not, then it diminishes everything else that makes Ross a suspect.

I accept that Z most likely did write it. I'm just not convinced that means Ross wrote it. yeah, I don't think Gyke wrote it either,or Bruce Davis or Ted Cruz. But that isn't really saying anything.

I dont know of any reason x, ala, gaik, tk would have for sneaking into rcc and risk writing that poem...i once wrote may be it is not a poem from a student but from the faculty staff up to and including a professor...to me and i dont know squat about literature or poems but may be an intern of the english arts wrote it...may be we should shift away from rcc student body and start to look at employees of rcc...bottom line for me is it seems logical somebody at that college wrote the poem and not somebody walking in off the street..wether that is z or not is the big unknown..

i still think a women was present or close by during her murder...what was going on in cheri's personal life just prior to that night thst not even her family have knowledge of.

Almost forgot, don't forget Ross's morbid poem that freaked out the library staff, and low and behold, what's written on the desktop that connects z to RCC? A morbid poem!

I'm willing to research any z sketch look alikes in that library but so far we only have one, and he doesn't have a passing similarity to the sketch but looks as if he posed for the sketch he is identical right down to the hairline. It's hard to ignore

What we know from general (and very relevant) experience is that composite sketches often do not resemble the perpetrator to any great degree. So, one assumption that has to be factored in if we're talking Occam, is that Z actually looked very much like the composite. If he did, then this greatly strengthens the case for any proposed suspect who looks like the thing. But it's still an assumption.

I lean towards him looking like the thing – to what precise degree is impossible to tell, but I think his own attempt at discrediting the sketch is, at least, very interesting.

But all that notwithstanding, we do know that others look like the sketch. Ross isn't the only person who has been brought up as a dead ringer for it.

And, again, it is dangerous to limit the Z pool to known persons. The evidence itself (which is the most important factor to consider) does not limit the pool in this way.

My "POI"'s girlfriend/fiancee was a Librarian Assistant at the RCC Library before she married in September, 1966. It's entirely possible--even probable--that my "POI" occasionally visited her while she was working at the Library, perhaps even stayed after closing time to give her a ride home or whatever. While he was in the Naval Reserve and, at that time, was on active duty, he got 48s and 72s like regular navy. Further, he was stationed at Coronado, not all that far from Riverside.