People that knew Ross

[bitterbeatpoet]

and.......perhaps he had reason to believe there was butter there.

[Susie]

This post is not meant to be for or against Ross as a suspect, but more of an overall statement.

I do not want someone to be discounted based on someone’s perspective of their abilities. I’m a very strong advocate for people with disabilities and I have seen people use their disability to their advantage many times (I’m not ok with that either). I used to work with a guy that got arrested multiple times for burglary and always got away with it because he acted like a scapegoat. He was caught once with a backpack full of stole items and claimed someone asked him to hold it for them. There was one time he was tracked down because he stole a GPS out of a limo and the company had a tracking device on it so they always knew where their drivers where located. He got out of that one as well. As long as I’ve known him he acts like an innocent person (he has both mild intellectual disability and mental health diagnoses) but I’ve also had meeting with him when he turns into a completely different person and starts yelling and screaming at me. And for the records he has never confessed to any of his crimes no matter what his mindset was at any given time. Once he was even caught in the act (breaking into a car) and he told the officer that his friend told him it was his car and he needed something out of it but lost his keys. He was never able to produce the “friend” but still got out of any real punishment for it.

If you want another good example look the posts from “Earl Van Best Jr.” on Tom’s site. He wrote a book and his posts make him sound like a 10 year old spoiled brat. If you read his posts you would never believe he actually wrote a book. And even though I do not believe that his father was Z, his book wasn’t half bad as far as writing goes. If his facts were true, which I do not believe they are, then it sounded like he really found out the truth. His posts and emails that he has sent to Tom are embarrassing, yet his seems proud of them.

[Susie]

The things that stick out for me: the capacity for violence and the urge to sing (such as in the Little List letter).

It also means he was out of the hospital for at least some period of time in between his arrest and his conservatorship. And another person that mentions living at the Y.

On the other hand, the info obviously places his mental capacity into question.

It would be nice if Santa Cruz had police reports back to that time. If so, you might be able to search for welfare calls involving RS. It would help with location and timeline.

I think it also raises a question - at what point do you turn this over to a PD to investigate? If the information we have is correct, we have a man who worked at the crime scene who had reason to know the victim, who wrote poetry, who later attacked people with a knife and later ended up in a mental hospital and who looked like the PH composite in a possibly related crime. It's circumstantial, and it may go nowhere in the end, but it's not a small or insignificant amount.

Just because someone is conserved it does not mean that they do not have freedom to walk around on their own. Conservatorship just means that there are decisions that they can not make on their own, but it does not mean they are confind to one area unless the conservator says otherwise. He may not have been able to decide where he lives, but even conserved people can usually walk in and out of their homes without a babysitter.

[morf13]

Here's the thing:

1. This proves even if he was in the hospital, he would be let out.

2. He was around 250 to 260 lbs at the time.

3. He was violent.

No information presented disqualifies Ross. Between July 1970 and March 1971, there was ONE letter. This was a card sent to Paul Avery in late October 1970. We already knew that the conservatorship began in mid December 1970. I assume these events happened around then.

Hopefully morf can contact this person again and we can get more information. Maybe this source can get us in contact with others who knew Ross or knew of him from that same period. Maybe just thinking about it has helped the source's memory.

On edit: Another thing I just thought of. If Ross was returning to the house he once lived in how "out of it" could he really be? Obviously he remembered where he had lived 2+ years earlier. It's just that this guy, and the others who lived there, didn't recognize him so all these years they probably thought Ross entered some random house. But it wasn't random, he entered the house because he once lived there.

It's possible, but no way to know that. This man simply thought that may be why he had showed up there, but it was his opinion, he was completely disturbed

[Mvinyl]

A Beatles obsession would explain why Zodiac described the police as Blue Meanies in his April, 1970 letter to the Chronicle (Blue Meanies = Bad guys in Yellow Submarine).

[morf13]

A Beatles obsession would explain why Zodiac described the police as Blue Meanies in his April, 1970 letter to the Chronicle (Blue Meanies = Bad guys in Yellow Submarine).

The Beatles have certainly been discussed before in regards to this case. The issue is, there were thousands of people in the bay area obsessed with the Beatles during that time. There's a thread someplace here, about an incident in Alameda County involving the Police, a shooting,or violence or something,I can't remember. But people started calling the Alameda PD, 'Blue meannies'. That could also be why Z referenced it

[bitterbeatpoet]

but Morf, he was definitely influenced by '60's counter-culture.
he was old enough that it might not have been the case.
do you see ALA knowing anything much about the Beatles?
so, the fellow you spoke with also saw Ross in an institution.
what institution was that? thanks.

[morf13]

but Morf, he was definitely influenced by '60's counter-culture.
he was old enough that it might not have been the case.
do you see ALA knowing anything much about the Beatles?
so, the fellow you spoke with also saw Ross in an institution.
what institution was that? thanks.

Agnews,the place we know Ross was in

[Paul_Averly]

A Beatles obsession would explain why Zodiac described the police as Blue Meanies in his April, 1970 letter to the Chronicle (Blue Meanies = Bad guys in Yellow Submarine).

That's a good find.

Z also wrote "6v car battery" in the bomb letter. Why 6V? 12v was in use at the time since 1955. The most common car with 6v was a VW, and Ross drove one of those at some point.

[JeffP]

Here's the thing:

1. This proves even if he was in the hospital, he would be let out.

2. He was around 250 to 260 lbs at the time.

3. He was violent.

No information presented disqualifies Ross. Between July 1970 and March 1971, there was ONE letter. This was a card sent to Paul Avery in late October 1970. We already knew that the conservatorship began in mid December 1970. I assume these events happened around then.

Hopefully morf can contact this person again and we can get more information. Maybe this source can get us in contact with others who knew Ross or knew of him from that same period. Maybe just thinking about it has helped the source's memory.

On edit: Another thing I just thought of. If Ross was returning to the house he once lived in how "out of it" could he really be? Obviously he remembered where he had lived 2+ years earlier. It's just that this guy, and the others who lived there, didn't recognize him so all these years they probably thought Ross entered some random house. But it wasn't random, he entered the house because he once lived there.

It's possible, but no way to know that. This man simply thought that may be why he had showed up there, but it was his opinion, he was completely disturbed

He was disturbed, yes. He was clearly irrational. The Zodiac was going around killing people for no reason. That's pretty irrational and disturbing. He was dressing up as some kind of bizarro serial killer superhero at LB. He was writing bizarre screeds with nonsensical cryptograms. Do we know that Ross, despite being irrational and disturbed, couldn't write coherently during this period? We know he could as late as 1966.

In my opinion, the problem here for some is that for many years they saw the Zodiac killer as this organized, criminal mastermind type and don't believe it could be Ross because Ross was not organized in any way. What if the Zodiac was just lucky? What if he was nothing more than a crazed lunatic who wrote letters and got away with it because the police had no idea what they were dealing with.