People that knew Ross

[JeffP]

The notion that somebody was Zodiac on their good days amuses me , but I have a hard time buying that Ross could have kept the lid on his Z persona if he was that out of control.

You're taking the term "good day" way too literal. When someone with mental illness is on a steady therapy regiment they can go months or years with much clearer thinking. I do not believe that during the murders Z was suffering from severe mental health episodes but it's not unlikely that he started going down hill rather quickly. There was a large gap in confirmed letters and if he was receiving the support he needed his thinking could have been clearer for awhile (not literally a day). As far as being "out of control" as you put it, people with schizophrenia are not going to all of the sudden tell the world their deepest secrets and even if they did drop hints from time to time not very many people would take them seriously. They tend to blow off the things that they are saying. There is definitely a good possibility that Ross was not Z; however at this point there's also plenty of interesting circumstances that keep him on the list of interesting suspects.

Also, between July 1970 and March 1971, what letters did the Zodiac even send? He sent ONE card - to Paul Avery - in October, with minimal writing on it.

[morf13]

The attack with a knife is very alarming,and is reminiscent of Cheri Jo Bates, and Lake Berryessa.However,if what this guy describes was Ross's every day mental state,I don't think there's any way he could keep the lid on his Z activity,let alone, write the Z letters. However, if this was 1971, and not 1970 as he was guessing, well then that could explain a 3 year gap in writing from Zodiac,if Ross was Z,he might have gone completely off the tracks. I don't want to eliminate Ross based off of this one account,but I also have to strongly consider it. For me personally, it's going to take me hearing or reading something that confirms a year, from somebody that knew Ross, or,official documents that place him in the hospital during a Z crime or letter, before I drop him.

[bitterbeatpoet]

even if he was hospitalized during part of the Z time frame, remember,
Ross had talked about escaping from one place. and, the story told
at LB about escaping from the Montana prison. he wasn't in jail. i
imagine it wasn't that hard to just walk away. maybe when the cops
came on this incident with the knife, they knew him and took him
back to Agnews? perhaps this had happened before? unless you didn't
reveal all this fellow told you Morf, i can't imagine anything here that
would dissuade you from Ross as a prime suspect? he was transient, he
drove a car and may have owned one at times, Katz said he lived all
over San Fran and his brother believed he was Z. he was obviously
unbalanced. who would have committed the Z crimes that wasn't crazy?
now you're afraid he was too crazy. people go off their meds. but when
they're on them, they can function normally. finally, as i've thought for
a long time, perhaps Z was a lot luckier than smart or good?

[bitterbeatpoet]

one final thing that just occurred to me. the cadence of his voice that
Brian Hartnell talked about. also, Nancy Slover described the voice
as being very unemotional, or flat. if Ross was functioning well, he
was probably on some strong meds. they definitely flat-line you. again,
this could explain all of that. perhaps if you talk to this fellow again,
you could ask him about Ross' voice. but, bearing in mind, off the meds,
he could have been manic.

[morf13]

even if he was hospitalized during part of the Z time frame, remember,
Ross had talked about escaping from one place. and, the story told
at LB about escaping from the Montana prison. he wasn't in jail. i
imagine it wasn't that hard to just walk away. maybe when the cops
came on this incident with the knife, they knew him and took him
back to Agnews? perhaps this had happened before? unless you didn't
reveal all this fellow told you Morf, i can't imagine anything here that
would dissuade you from Ross as a prime suspect? he was transient, he
drove a car and may have owned one at times, Katz said he lived all
over San Fran and his brother believed he was Z. he was obviously
unbalanced. who would have committed the Z crimes that wasn't crazy?
now you're afraid he was too crazy. people go off their meds. but when
they're on them, they can function normally. finally, as i've thought for
a long time, perhaps Z was a lot luckier than smart or good?

I for one don't agree, I don't know how easy it would be for Ross to come and go or mail Z letters. I am not writing Ross off as a suspect just yet, but certainly considering all available info. In the meantime, anybody that looked just like Ross,and was in that RCC Library should be looked at as Z

[morf13]

one final thing that just occurred to me. the cadence of his voice that
Brian Hartnell talked about. also, Nancy Slover described the voice
as being very unemotional, or flat. if Ross was functioning well, he
was probably on some strong meds. they definitely flat-line you. again,
this could explain all of that. perhaps if you talk to this fellow again,
you could ask him about Ross' voice. but, bearing in mind, off the meds,
he could have been manic.

I learned a while back that Ross has a monotone non emotional voice, from Allan Silliphant. It's quite possible, he talked like Z did to Slover

[Nick, no Nora]

The things that stick out for me: the capacity for violence and the urge to sing (such as in the Little List letter).

It also means he was out of the hospital for at least some period of time in between his arrest and his conservatorship. And another person that mentions living at the Y.

On the other hand, the info obviously places his mental capacity into question.

It would be nice if Santa Cruz had police reports back to that time. If so, you might be able to search for welfare calls involving RS. It would help with location and timeline.

I think it also raises a question - at what point do you turn this over to a PD to investigate? If the information we have is correct, we have a man who worked at the crime scene who had reason to know the victim, who wrote poetry, who later attacked people with a knife and later ended up in a mental hospital and who looked like the PH composite in a possibly related crime. It's circumstantial, and it may go nowhere in the end, but it's not a small or insignificant amount.

[masootz]

we know there was at least some investigation of ross. in my opinion we have to set the bar higher before turning over what has been found. i think at this point they'd weigh the evidence we've found against what they already know (he was looked at and dropped for whatever reason) and we'd probably have a hard time getting them to take it seriously. i feel like it's a one-shot and we don't want to come back in three months with more, then six month later with something big because they'll be tired of hearing about it by then.

[Paul_Averly]

The key thing with Ross is this: where was he from Dec 1968 to Nov 1969? That is the key year.

My mind keeps returning to LHR. If Ross was Z, and wrote the Riverside letters, why no letter after LHR?

Also, Ross and the knife might bring some validation he might be responsible for this:
http://www.zodiackillersite.com/viewtop ... f=37&t=678

[JeffP]

Here's the thing:

1. This proves even if he was in the hospital, he would be let out.

2. He was around 250 to 260 lbs at the time.

3. He was violent.

No information presented disqualifies Ross. Between July 1970 and March 1971, there was ONE letter. This was a card sent to Paul Avery in late October 1970. We already knew that the conservatorship began in mid December 1970. I assume these events happened around then.

Hopefully morf can contact this person again and we can get more information. Maybe this source can get us in contact with others who knew Ross or knew of him from that same period. Maybe just thinking about it has helped the source's memory.

On edit: Another thing I just thought of. If Ross was returning to the house he once lived in how "out of it" could he really be? Obviously he remembered where he had lived 2+ years earlier. It's just that this guy, and the others who lived there, didn't recognize him so all these years they probably thought Ross entered some random house. But it wasn't random, he entered the house because he once lived there.