People that knew Ross

[bitterbeatpoet]

if true, that's a shame. one more instance of Z's luck still holding out.

[Tahoe27]

As far as I know, there is no valid LB DNA.

i would suggest you do a little more research on this case.

Right back at ya.

http://zodiackiller.fr.yuku.com/topic/6 ... d-aFiVViko

[bitterbeatpoet]

and they are stating definitively that they have Z's DNA.

[Marshall]

If I found an official document saying Ross was ruled out via prints or he was in a mental hospital during a z crime then I would scratch him off my list. Problem is, will we find such a document?

i don't see how you can say that about the mental hospital. he definitely
talked about "escaping." also, some patients got passes for holidays and
even weekends. weren't all the Z crimes done on weekends?
beginning in the late 60's they made a big push away from institutions.
put the patients on the new drugs and turn them loose. i know for a fact.
my mother was committed in 1950. she was diagnosed as a paranoid
schizophrenic. she was institutional until 1970 when she was allowed to
live in what they called a 'half-way house." that's where she lived until
she died in 1983. it wouldn't have been possible without new meds.
but fingerprints, that is another story.

I'm making some assumptions here.... Suppose Ross was in a mental hospital and got out for a weekend here and there. Maybe passes, maybe "escapes." I'm wondering, how would he have gained access to a car? Would he have had his own car in the parking lot at the hospital, waiting for him? Would he have had to borrow or rent (or steal) one? Could someone in his condition have had a valid drivers license (which probably would've been required to rent a car?)

This is more of a general question. How could someone in a mental hospital, with a pretty severe condition, get hold of a car for a weekend?

[bitterbeatpoet]

sure wouldn't have needed a car to kill Stine or CJB.
could have been riding a motorcycle at Lake Berryessa.
could have borrowed a car or even stolen one for the
other two. and, that's not to say he didn't have his
own car parked at a friend's house. these are possible
ways it could have gone down?

[Marshall]

sure wouldn't have needed a car to kill Stine or CJB.
could have been riding a motorcycle at Lake Berryessa.
could have borrowed a car or even stolen one for the
other two. and, that's not to say he didn't have his
own car parked at a friend's house. these are possible
ways it could have gone down?

He had a car and was not in an institution when CJB was killed. He was at the library quite frequently. Might not have needed a car for Stine, although one would think the scent dogs would've picked up on him if he was on foot for any distance (with Stine's blood on his clothes, and the piece of bloody shirt he was carrying.) Also, if out for a weekend pass, unless the hospital was nearby, he would've had to have some sort of transportation from there to PH and back.

Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it's really the same question. He'd need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

Wouldn't it be incredibly risky to steal a car, and then drive around in it, stalking and killing victims? If we're talking about a guy who's insane, it's certainly possible. But he also seemed to be a planner, and having police looking for the car he's driving, even before he's actually committed a Z crime, wouldn't be very intelligent.

What I'm wondering is, was Tim in Canada at this time, or could that be where Ross could've acquired wheels? If so - further speculation - it could be that Tim started noticing a correlation between Z crimes and Ross borrowing a car.

[JeffP]

sure wouldn't have needed a car to kill Stine or CJB.
could have been riding a motorcycle at Lake Berryessa.
could have borrowed a car or even stolen one for the
other two. and, that's not to say he didn't have his
own car parked at a friend's house. these are possible
ways it could have gone down?

He had a car and was not in an institution when CJB was killed. He was at the library quite frequently. Might not have needed a car for Stine, although one would think the scent dogs would've picked up on him if he was on foot for any distance (with Stine's blood on his clothes, and the piece of bloody shirt he was carrying.) Also, if out for a weekend pass, unless the hospital was nearby, he would've had to have some sort of transportation from there to PH and back.

Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it's really the same question. He'd need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

Wouldn't it be incredibly risky to steal a car, and then drive around in it, stalking and killing victims? If we're talking about a guy who's insane, it's certainly possible. But he also seemed to be a planner, and having police looking for the car he's driving, even before he's actually committed a Z crime, wouldn't be very intelligent.

What I'm wondering is, was Tim in Canada at this time, or could that be where Ross could've acquired wheels? If so - further speculation - it could be that Tim started noticing a correlation between Z crimes and Ross borrowing a car.

Excellent point. Tim and Bonnie divorced in June 1969. Might he have returned by then?

[Marshall]

Excellent point. Tim and Bonnie divorced in June 1969. Might he have returned by then?

If Tim went to Canada to avoid the Vietnam draft, would he have been likely to return in 1969-70? Or... did Tim have a place in or near SF that Ross could use while Tim was out of the country? If not a dwelling, maybe a car that was in storage somewhere? Those would be interesting questions for Bonnie, if she was willing to help.

Another thought, again speculating if Ross was Z, institutionalized, and out on passes or escapes for Z attacks... Where did he acquire/stash his guns?

To me, in this scenario, LB is the key, because with the others, Z could drive, kill, return, in a relatively short timeframe. All he'd need would be a vehicle, gun and ammo. But if he was institutionalized at the time of LB (9/27/69) then he would need a place, and time, to sew that costume unnoticed. It could probably be done in a day, but he'd need a place to do it. Since LB is less than 3 months after BRS and just two weeks before PH, I think Ross would look a lot better for being Z if he was out of the hospital between late September and October 12, 1969.

[bitterbeatpoet]

Marshall wrote:
Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it's really the same question. He'd need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

this cat doesn't obey laws, man. all kinds of folks driving around
without a license. he sure could have been one of them.
motorcycles sometimes have saddlebags. think about this...
car or motorcycle, all the stuff you mentioned, bib, hood, etc,
he would have had to carry quite a distance down the hill from
his vehicle to behind the tree that was close to Bryan and Cecelia.
when she first saw him, he didn't have his little outfit on. i wonder
how he got it all down there?

[Marshall]

Marshall wrote:
Motorcycle at LB is possible but I doubt it, since he had all that gear: bib, hood, gun, knife, rope (going there, that is.) A cycle with a fairly large storage compartment maybe. But whether motorcycle or car, it's really the same question. He'd need a drivers license, have the vehicle license current, etc.

this cat doesn't obey laws, man. all kinds of folks driving around
without a license. he sure could have been one of them.
motorcycles sometimes have saddlebags. think about this...
car or motorcycle, all the stuff you mentioned, bib, hood, etc,
he would have had to carry quite a distance down the hill from
his vehicle to behind the tree that was close to Bryan and Cecelia.
when she first saw him, he didn't have his little outfit on. i wonder
how he got it all down there?

You're missing my point. Where would he have gotten a motorcycle, if out on a weekend pass from a mental hospital?

And I'm not talking about a drivers license - I'm talking about a vehicle license. The kind of thing a cop can easily check for on your license plate, and pull you over if your plate is expired.