Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

[JeffP]

Read the police reports.

How rude. You're really accusing Tahoe of not having read the reports?

Con: having to resort to insults to prove your point.

I don't have those memorized, but I'm pretty sure that the word "overweight" was in fact never used. Just words like "heavyset" that you chose to interpret as meaning "overweight". More twisting things around.

No. I'm saying every police report has witnesses claiming the perp was heavy set or fat. That's not rude, that's a fact.

[Norse]

I think Tahoe's point was that Z is never described explicitly as overweight, nor is he ever described as being a huge guy. The general impression - MM, BH, PH teens and Fouke - is rather that of someone stocky, beefy, etc.

It seems quite obvious that Ross was considerably bigger than the balance which emerges from the descriptions. Which is a problem - I don't think we can simply overlook this.

PS To which I add that I don't think witness descriptions are a deal breaker in this case unless whoever is put forth is wildly out of the ballpark. But if Ross was a tall 300 pounder in 1969, then that certainly can't be called a pro.

[Paul_Averly]

I think Tahoe's point was that Z is never described explicitly as overweight, nor is he ever described as being a huge guy. The general impression - MM, BH, PH teens and Fouke - is rather that of someone stocky, beefy, etc.

It seems quite obvious that Ross was considerably bigger than the balance which emerges from the descriptions. Which is a problem - I don't think we can simply overlook this.

PS To which I add that I don't think witness descriptions are a deal breaker in this case unless whoever is put forth is wildly out of the ballpark. But if Ross was a tall 300 pounder in 1969, then that certainly can't be called a pro.

Tahoe's point is invade because

Z was described as overweight by Cecelia Shepard

1:05:12 in this doc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsb ... rpiZeYt58k

[morf13]

I think Tahoe's point was that Z is never described explicitly as overweight, nor is he ever described as being a huge guy. The general impression - MM, BH, PH teens and Fouke - is rather that of someone stocky, beefy, etc.

It seems quite obvious that Ross was considerably bigger than the balance which emerges from the descriptions. Which is a problem - I don't think we can simply overlook this.

PS To which I add that I don't think witness descriptions are a deal breaker in this case unless whoever is put forth is wildly out of the ballpark. But if Ross was a tall 300 pounder in 1969, then that certainly can't be called a pro.

Tahoe's point is invade because

Z was described as overweight by Cecelia Shepard

1:05:12 in this doc:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HI0jnsb ... rpiZeYt58k

She said "he was overweight, he was bulky". But to be fair, she also said he was shorter than Ross

[Tahoe27]

I think Tahoe's point was that Z is never described explicitly as overweight, nor is he ever described as being a huge guy. The general impression - MM, BH, PH teens and Fouke - is rather that of someone stocky, beefy, etc.

It seems quite obvious that Ross was considerably bigger than the balance which emerges from the descriptions. Which is a problem - I don't think we can simply overlook this.

PS To which I add that I don't think witness descriptions are a deal breaker in this case unless whoever is put forth is wildly out of the ballpark. But if Ross was a tall 300 pounder in 1969, then that certainly can't be called a pro.

Exactly.

JeffP...no one ever said Zodiac was fat.

Paul_Averly...I don't think you need to bold and enlarge the font to get your point across. WE HEAR YOU.

Actually, Officer Dave Collins said that--not Cecelia directly herself. Dave Collins also said Cecelia was the one who gave the description for the composite and investigators canvassed the area with it and found three young women in the same general area who were sunbathing.

Canvassed the area with the composite? The three girls were behind the composite...not Cecelia.

Do you see what I am getting at? Collins acts like he and Cecelia had this calm, casual conversation. He is also spewing bs about things that simply did not happen.

The man supposedly got a detailed description then felt it "not important" to report it....

Also, why don't you mention the rest of what was said if you believe Collins? Cecelia put her attacker at around 200 pounds with brown hair. I won't argue height as it would be close for sure. The shoe sizes don't match Riverside.

Look, you certainly don't have to like what I have to say, but there is no reason to get so upset by it. I am simply trying to look at the other side of it and show that things aren't always so cut & dry.

[Paul_Averly]

OK

[Norse]

I am simply trying to look at the other side of it and show that things aren't always so cut & dry.

On a general note, I suppose that is precisely what a board like this should offer - criticism and counterpoints. If a POI or a theory has merits, he or it will withstand such criticism.

I don't have a dog in this race, I'm just interested in finding out what happened - and if it seems that I'm overly critical/skeptical sometimes, it usually (I hope at least) happens when there is something worthwhile to criticize. If Ross, for instance, had been a complete waste of time, I wouldn't have bothered to comment much.

So, yes - that is all.

[Tahoe27]

I don't mean to dismiss what "Allen" has to say, but we are talking about 50 year old memories from a kid he knew in high school. I'm not saying that any of us could not remember someone was smart, and if they were smart I would like to think they could carry out a plan of some sort, but I kind of find it a little odd...that and his remembering a poem Ross wrote; even if only a couple of lines. I think it is a valid concern. I am not saying he's lying, I just find it a bit curious.

Well, Tahoe, I can tell you after talking to Allan 3 times for almost 3 hours, Allan is very sharp! His memories of Ross are very clear, and they flowed as we talked, so I think it's a bit unfair for you t criticize his recollections and info.

My apologies if I came off as Allan not having all his whits about him. We all know many people remember things from their past better than some things that just happened last week! My father is 73 and he'll all there.

My point was that, while he might remember Ross, he is still remembering a guy he went to high school with. They did not appear to be friends after that. He remembers his high school friend...and that is interesting and it's appreciated you went to such lengths. No insults to you or Allan intended.

It reminds me of Facebook and some of the friends I have on there from high school who I have not seen or talked to since. I have no idea about these people now, or who they have become in life...it's kind of scary actually and I will now go delete some of them.

[morf13]

Allan said flat out, he never knew Ross to be violent, or threatening. I'm reporting the stuff that may match Z and the stuff that may not. You are right, he knew Ross up until about 1962, 3 years after graduating, and he knew Ross had gone to Riverside. Now People can certainly change, and maybe with Ross, his mental illness would cause changes.

Here's where we stand with Ross-

We all know, some people like him as a Suspect in the Z and/or Bates case, and some people do not. Some people think the desktop poem was written by Zodiac, and some don't. We know, we are going to agree to disagree on aspects of this case, and this Forum allows healthy debates. But I am sure everybody would agree(or at least I hope they would)that Ross should be fully checked out and eliminated.
He's the only Suspect in this case to be linked to that RCC Library and look like the sketch.If anybody has another one, I will gladly help you research them. On the chance that Sherwood was right, I think it is foolish to write off ANY Suspects linked to that RCC Library, which includes Ross or anybody else! Trust me, I would love to find that solid clue that confirms Ross was Z or clears him once and for all. Unfortunately, we don't have any clue that does either.

[Paul_Averly]

Cons: Everything else. Ross has no connection to anything having to do with the word Zodiac. Never shown to own or have access to any of Z's cars, nor guns, nor wing walker shoes, codes, military/navy, knot tying, Mikado, Belli, bombs, Paul Avery, etc.

Do any suspects have Z's cars or guns? Wouldn't that mean the case was solved if we had to start with that?

It's easy to find a POI with ties to SF, Vallejo and the Bay Area. But with all of these POIs, the case starts to fall apart when there is an attempt to link them to Riverside, let alone the RCC. The best they could link ALA to was races in a town close by.

The good thing about Ross, is that we are going in the opposite direction. Establish the Riverside/RCC connection then work towards the Bay Area links.