Zodiackillersite.com

Paul_Averly wrote:Here is what I want to know. Why are so many of you so sure Ross could not have been Zodiac? What information am I not seeing? As far as I can tell, no one on this board knew the guy and hung out with him on the night of july 4th '69.

So why are so many so quick and so sure he can't be Z? I'm fine with everyone blowing off 99% of the suspect that come through since most aren't even real suspects.

But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

it's more the perspective of asking your exact question to the people who seem to be so sure ross was zodiac. i don't think he couldn't be, i just think he hasn't been proven to be. not even remotely. it's like half of this site suddenly put on blinders to anything that doesn't point towards ross. dangerous precedent in my ever humble opinion.

Paul_Averly wrote:But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

That is part of it. He was a suspect. Some people considered POI's by some have never been looked at, but Ross was. Obviously many feel he needs to be reconsidered and that is all fine and good.

It's not that people don't think Ross was/is a valid suspect, but some aren't so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Fact is, there are cons and the cons are being expressed here.

Paul_Averly wrote:

joedetective wrote:I think it's a joke to be quoting profilers from 1969. They pretty much thought all serial killers were schizophrenic homosexuals. In that respect I am more qualified than they were...

Wow, no wonder this case has yet to be solved by amateurs such as yourself. That might be the dumbest thing ever posted.

The pattern that keeps emerging is this: don't agree that Ross is a good suspect, bash the original investigators and their analysis. Bash Sherwood and his handwriting analysis abilities. Then make claims that you are more qualified!

No wonder Gyke is considered a good suspect by so many....

Yeah, with statements like that, I see what I am dealing with,or who,so no real way to rationalize

joedetective wrote:

Paul_Averly wrote:

joedetective wrote:I think it's a joke to be quoting profilers from 1969. They pretty much thought all serial killers were schizophrenic homosexuals. In that respect I am more qualified than they were...

Wow, no wonder this case has yet to be solved by amateurs such as yourself. That might be the dumbest thing ever posted.

The pattern that keeps emerging is this: don't agree that Ross is a good suspect, bash the original investigators and their analysis. Bash Sherwood and his handwriting analysis abilities. Then make claims that you are more qualified!

No wonder Gyke is considered a good suspect by so many....

Funny the pattern I see emerging on this site is that anyone who challenges the Sullivan camp is pretty much bullied out of the site. What I said obviously went way over your head. If you want to put your faith in outdated psychological analysis go right ahead. I don't see you solving the case either. I don't appreciate my comments being taken out of context and being told by another amateur how dumb my post is.

This site will turn into morf and his yes men very soon. Sadly reminiscent of another unnamed Z site. No body there to challenge your teetering reasoning. Sad.

Bye.

Good night, and Good Luck!

Paul_Averly wrote:Here is what I want to know. Why are so many of you so sure Ross could not have been Zodiac? What information am I not seeing? As far as I can tell, no one on this board knew the guy and hung out with him on the night of july 4th '69.

So why are so many so quick and so sure he can't be Z? I'm fine with everyone blowing off 99% of the suspect that come through since most aren't even real suspects.

But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

1) Some people thing that the Z writing in the Riverside Bates case is not Z writing at all, and therefore, Ross is not a valid Suspect

2)Some People think Z was not a Schizophrenic(despite multiple trained experts that felt he Was),so therefore Ross is not a valid suspect

3)We don't know where Ross was in 1969-74,so therefore Ross is not a valid Suspect

I think that sums it up. What is interesting is,I don't think I've ever seen as much discussion about a Z Suspect,who some people didn't think was Z,on this or any other site. For whatever reasons, Ross is worthy of a lot of posts.

One possibility I see is this:

If Sherwood Morrill, an expert doc examiner, and head of the Z investigation was right, and Z was in the RCC library-

and if, the profilers were right and Z had schizophrenia,

and if Fouke and /or the Stine witnesses were right and Z looked just like Ross,

then there's a very real possibility that Ross was Zodiac. Personally, I don't care what any nay- sayers opinions are about Ross. It won't change the known facts or the expert opinions, and will not sway me from clearing this Suspect. Also remember, some People look for the truth, and some people criticize the work of the People that do-just try to have a thicker skin.

Make no mistake, I have said it time & time again, I think that Ross very possibly was Z. I can't, and won't claim the case is solved until we get a smoking gun. If I can verify and prove Ross was not Z, I will drop him like a hot potato, and move on. In the meantime, I continue to look at other Suspects and clues, and will help anybody research other possible Suspects. If somebody feels that this has become a "Ross site" and are not happy being here, I respect your opinions, and your right to move on,case in point, Joe Detective

Paul_Averly wrote:Here is what I want to know. Why are so many of you so sure Ross could not have been Zodiac? What information am I not seeing? As far as I can tell, no one on this board knew the guy and hung out with him on the night of july 4th '69.

So why are so many so quick and so sure he can't be Z? I'm fine with everyone blowing off 99% of the suspect that come through since most aren't even real suspects.

But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

You're asking the wrong kind of questions from what I consider the wrong kind of starting point.

It's largely a variation on the old negative proof problem. We didn't hang out with Ross Sullivan on the fourth of July '69, so who are we to question his status as a Zodiac suspect? These are your own examples - and they're suggestive, in my opinion. The logic is as flawed as it gets: We can't prove that Ross Sullivan didn't have reasonable opportunity (i.e. that he did not live in the vicinity of LHR, BRS, LB and PH at the relevant times). We can't prove that he didn't own multiple firearms. We can't prove that he didn't have a car. We can't prove that he was obese to the point of being way out of any ballpark suggested by eyewitnesses. We can't prove for an absolute fact that he wasn't known to be violent (although the only statement we have which relates to this, suggests that he was not). We can't prove anything. So, Ross Sullivan, in your opinion, is a first rate suspect. Top of the line, in fact.

In another thread you claim that the Zodiac case has been solved. Presumably because you consider that what has been dug up pertaining to Ross Sullivan is sufficient to make it obvious that he must have been the Zodiac killer. That's absurd, to put it frankly. It's not questionable or debatable - it's just plainly absurd. And if you don't realize this, I can't help you.

Sorry for not even trying to be diplomatic any longer, but your tone towards others here has - to be frank - pissed me off.

Tahoe27 wrote:

Paul_Averly wrote:But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

That is part of it. He was a suspect. Some people considered POI's by some have never been looked at, but Ross was. Obviously many feel he needs to be reconsidered and that is all fine and good.

It's not that people don't think Ross was/is a valid suspect, but some aren't so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Fact is, there are cons and the cons are being expressed here.

But that's just it....how do we know he was looked at??? Maybe in the Bates murder, but he could have not killed Cheri but still been Z,which is what many of us thought before we even heard of Ross. We know that Ross is NOT listed in Vallejo, or Napa's suspect pool, that's a fact. Was he in SF's? We don't know. We know Peterson asked Toschi to look into Ross. Did he do that??? Anybody know??? I know the FBI did not have a file on Ross, that means, they likely never saw or examined him in any way. If somebody shares something that is proof Ross was looked at and excluded as being Z, please share it.

masootz wrote:

Paul_Averly wrote:Here is what I want to know. Why are so many of you so sure Ross could not have been Zodiac? What information am I not seeing? As far as I can tell, no one on this board knew the guy and hung out with him on the night of july 4th '69.

So why are so many so quick and so sure he can't be Z? I'm fine with everyone blowing off 99% of the suspect that come through since most aren't even real suspects.

But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

it's more the perspective of asking your exact question to the people who seem to be so sure ross was zodiac. i don't think he couldn't be, i just think he hasn't been proven to be. not even remotely. it's like half of this site suddenly put on blinders to anything that doesn't point towards ross. dangerous precedent in my ever humble opinion.

Not all of us feel that way. Are there some that have made up their minds, and that Ross was Z? Sure there may be. But it's not all of us! I feel he very possibly could be Z, but for me, he would have to be placed in Vallejo,SF,Napa areas from 68-74-to me, as promising as he is, I could never declare him as being Z until I had more.

morf13 wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:

Paul_Averly wrote:But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

That is part of it. He was a suspect. Some people considered POI's by some have never been looked at, but Ross was. Obviously many feel he needs to be reconsidered and that is all fine and good.

It's not that people don't think Ross was/is a valid suspect, but some aren't so quick to jump on the bandwagon. Fact is, there are cons and the cons are being expressed here.

But that's just it....how do we know he was looked at??? Maybe in the Bates murder, but he could have not killed Cheri but still been Z,which is what many of us thought before we even heard of Ross. We know that Ross is NOT listed in Vallejo, or Napa's suspect pool, that's a fact. Was he in SF's? We don't know. We know Peterson asked Toschi to look into Ross. Did he do that??? Anybody know??? I know the FBI did not have a file on Ross, that means, they likely never saw or examined him in any way. If somebody shares something that is proof Ross was looked at and excluded as being Z, please share it.

I was referring to Cheri's murder since Paul_Averly wrote, "He was suspected in the CJB's murder!".

We don't know the extent to which he was looked at, of course.

morf13 wrote:

masootz wrote:

Paul_Averly wrote:Here is what I want to know. Why are so many of you so sure Ross could not have been Zodiac? What information am I not seeing? As far as I can tell, no one on this board knew the guy and hung out with him on the night of july 4th '69.

So why are so many so quick and so sure he can't be Z? I'm fine with everyone blowing off 99% of the suspect that come through since most aren't even real suspects.

But Ross has been a suspect since DAY 1! He was suspected in the CJB's murder! What am I missing here?

it's more the perspective of asking your exact question to the people who seem to be so sure ross was zodiac. i don't think he couldn't be, i just think he hasn't been proven to be. not even remotely. it's like half of this site suddenly put on blinders to anything that doesn't point towards ross. dangerous precedent in my ever humble opinion.

Not all of us feel that way. Are there some that have made up their minds, and that Ross was Z? Sure there may be. But it's not all of us! I feel he very possibly could be Z, but for me, he would have to be placed in Vallejo,SF,Napa areas from 68-74-to me, as promising as he is, I could never declare him as being Z until I had more.

sorry, i wasn't including you in that group. i think you've done a good job of getting excited about a good suspect but keeping it within the bounds of reality. you have some good info on sullivan. you're trying to find more. that's precisely how it should work. i was speaking to those who make absurd claims that don't stand up to scrutiny. they only work to further confuse an already confused set of facts.