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Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:13 pm
by Paul_Averly
Norse wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem - which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.


Why can't the poem be about suicide, and still written by Ross? Didn't Allen say Ross hated himself?


PRO:

The poem was signed with r.h. Ross = r. His mother and father's first names were both "h."

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:24 pm
by morf13
Paul_Averly wrote:
Norse wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem - which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.


Why can't the poem be about suicide, and still written by Ross? Didn't Allen say Ross hated himself?


PRO:

The poem was signed with r.h. Ross = r. His mother and father's first names were both "h."


If only the initials were RS :lol:

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 7:30 pm
by Susie
Paul_Averly wrote:
Norse wrote:You're entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem - which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.


Why can't the poem be about suicide, and still written by Ross? Didn't Allen say Ross hated himself?


PRO:

The poem was signed with r.h. Ross = r. His mother and father's first names were both "h."

Maybe it was a dedication to his mom? Ross and Harriet. His friend did state that he hated his dad and maybe it was dedicated to her. I wonder if she committed suicide or if it had anything to do with her mind set or thoughts before she died. It's possible she also had some mental health issue. Even if she did not kill herself maybe she tried or spoke about it. Or maybe he wasn't the author and we are just reaching. It's all possible but I think finding out how his mom died would be very benefitional. Maybe she has cancer and that's how Ross interpreted how he thought she felt, as if she was bleeding out.

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 8:31 pm
by Theforeigner
If I was presented by the desk top poem and had no knowledge of the Zodiac case whatsoever and someone asked me what that poem was about and what kind of person wrote it I would say:

It was written by a girl torn between the desire to die and to live.
The poem is about herself.
This girl once tried to commit suicide by cutting herself, but it was a half hearted attempt and she was found and saved.
She still have thoughts of suicide and plan to do it again at least in her thoughts.


Sick of living/unwilling to die
cut.
clean.
if red /
clean.
blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress
oh well
it was red
anyway.
life draining into an
uncertain death.
she won't (smudge)
die.
this time
someone ll find her.
just wait till
next time.
rh

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:12 pm
by up2something
TF, I agree 100%. Quite frankly, I don't know how this could be construed as a poem about murder.

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:30 pm
by Paul_Averly
I disagree 100%!

Sick of living/unwilling to die *Wants to kill himself

cut.
clean.
if red /
clean. *Slash up a victim and clean up the evidence


blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress *HER, the victim is female


oh well
it was red
anyway.

life draining into an
uncertain death.

she won't (smudge)
die.
this time
someone ll find her. Again, the female victim.


just wait till
next time. *if this is about suicide there is no next time! But murder...
rh

Also, english IS my first language.


BTW this thread is about the pros/cons not a analysis of the desktop!

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:48 pm
by morf13
Perhaps a Guy like Z who was possibly a latent homosexual, or a guy like Ross(who according to Allan may have been A-Sexual),may come across as feminine in nature as far as their writing. Regardless of the tone, or anybody's interpretation, the state's top writing expert said Z wrote it, and it was "unquestionably" the work of Zodiac. There's only two possibilities. One, Sherwood was Correct and Z wrote it. Or two, he was wrong and Z did not write it, and then all Riverside bets are off.


But again, and I know I will not convert anybody here (you know who you are ;) ) let's take the Bates case writings as a whole:

*Desktop linked to Zodiac by State writing expert, and backed up by Traveller1st. Now Trav is certainly not a documents examiner, but his profession & ability allows him to demonstrate and highlight some very striking similarities between confirmed Z letters, and the desktop.

*The Bates case, like the Z case, has a Guy demanding the letters get published. He also writes that he "did make that call", another similarity to Z, calling police after the crime.

*Confession letter similarity also shows link to Z in choice of words, same misspelling of TWICH/TWITCH, and use of the word SHALL that Z was so fond of. And to you skeptics that say the word 'SHALL' is pretty common, I dare you to tell me you have used that word in a sentence verbally or on paper in the last 10 years(not counting Zodiac related). Simply put, it ain't a common word! Unless you are a writer using it in a Book, or a lawyer filling out some legal mumbo jumbo, that word is not used very much in the USA today, nor was it back in 1969. Here's a nice long thread about the word SHALL- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shall_and_will

*Confession letter mailed 30 days after attack, and Bates had to die letters mailed 6 months after attack, Z mailed letter to Belli one year after LHR, in both Bates & Z cases, we see letters mailed on the anniversaries of attacks.


*Bates letters had little symbols on them that, whether you believe they are Z's are not, resemble Z's/

*Also, while not solid proof, let's consider 'ZODE' for a second. A Guy in 1963 to 1965, in nearby San Bernardino who admits to calling himself, ZODIAC,(6 years before Z used it) and could be heard saying "this is the Zodiac speaking", is it not the least bit possible that Zodiac stole that persona and that exact saying from Zode after encountering Zode, or knowing Zode by his nickname, or hearing about Zode thru a mutual Friend. Let's face it, if ZODE really called himself Zodiac, and used the phrase "this is the zodiac speaking" in 1964, then we would almost have to assume that Zodiac stole that from Zode in some way, wouldn't we?

Again, it's more than just the desktop, it's all of the writings, and the habits of the writer, that in my opinion, give it away that Z did the writing.

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Fri Mar 27, 2015 9:53 pm
by morf13
Paul_Averly wrote:I disagree 100%!

Sick of living/unwilling to die *Wants to kill himself

cut.
clean.
if red /
clean. *Slash up a victim and clean up the evidence


blood spurting,
dripping,
spilling;
all over her new
dress *HER, the victim is female


oh well
it was red
anyway.

life draining into an
uncertain death.

she won't (smudge)
die.
this time
someone ll find her. Again, the female victim.


just wait till
next time. *if this is about suicide there is no next time! But murder...
rh

Also, english IS my first language.


BTW this thread is about the pros/cons not a analysis of the desktop!


The poem sounds to me like, he is fantasizing about killing a Girl, maybe his fantasies have not become reality. Maybe 'next time' he will go thru with it, and she won't be so lucky.

The line, CUT. CLEAN. almost sounds as if he's gutting a deer, at least from a Hunter's view.

Personally, I do not think the writing looks like a female wrote it, it is not thin, or overly feminine in my opinion.

Perhaps somebody would like to start a debate thread in the desktop section since this is going a bit off topic

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 6:42 am
by up2something
morf13 wrote:There's only two possibilities. One, Sherwood was Correct and Z wrote it. Or two, he was wrong and Z did not write it, and then all Riverside bets are off.


The link to Zodiac was established by much more than this poem. The poem, IMO, is incidental. While we can argue that "it places Z in the RCC library," it really doesn't matter in the case of Ross. We already know he worked there.

Re: Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

PostPosted: Sat Mar 28, 2015 8:13 am
by morf13
up2something wrote:
morf13 wrote:There's only two possibilities. One, Sherwood was Correct and Z wrote it. Or two, he was wrong and Z did not write it, and then all Riverside bets are off.


The link to Zodiac was established by much more than this poem. The poem, IMO, is incidental. While we can argue that "it places Z in the RCC library," it really doesn't matter in the case of Ross. We already know he worked there.


True, but if Sherwood was wrong, then we are likely looking in Riverside for no reason, and any suspects from there including Ross, become less interesting. Personally, I agree with Sherwood, so I am happy to be poking around Riverside