Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

[Tahoe27]

My concern is his size. We have a guy who knew him in high school in the early 60's say he was about 300 lbs. We have him at 6'2"...I think.

When he died in 1977, "Extreme Obesity" is mentioned on his death certificate. While a lot can happened in 10+ years, it would seem Ross was getting larger.

I don't see how, if Ross was Zodiac, he was not described as a very large man....stocky, beefy, blubbery or not. Take the guesses of height and weight out of the picture and to me, he would have still been described as a very large man.

Some will say his size is a "pro"...I believe it is a "con".

[morf13]

Paul linked to this-

"Dr. Miron, a psycholinguistics expert wrote this report for the Syracuse Research Institute:
"He is no more than high school educated, reads little, is isolated, withdrawn and unrelated in his habits, quiet and unpreposessing in disposition, a discretionary illiterate. Prefers the passiveness of pictures, tv and the movies. Would have spent much of his time in movie houses, specializing in sado-masochistic and occult eroticism. A borderline psychotic, his communications display the characteristic signs of magical thinking and narcissistic infantilism, typical of the schitzophrenic. Zodiac rather well fits the pattern of what might be called pseudo-reactive schitzophrenia. Such individuals engage in their bizarre behavior as a sort of cover up for their underlying, and more hidden psychosis. They can be expected to display wide swings of emotion from intense euphoria to deepest depression. He lives the secret life of seclusion and presents to the worls a mask of containment, pleasantness, and ordinariness."
Dr. Murray S. Miron"

That's an old profile, I think was in the Graysmith Book, and yes, a lot of it fits Ross.

[morf13]

Ross Sullivan Pros Vs. Cons of him being Zodiac

Making a Pros vs cons list for Ross as possibly being Zodiac. Feel free to add to the list.

Pros:

*He was in the RCC Library in which the State's foremost writing expert linked the desktop poem there to Zodiac

*The desktop writing linked to Z was a morbid poem, and Ross had only a short time before the murder, freaked out the RCC Library Staff

*The Library staff suspected him of Killing possible Z victim, Cheri Jo Bates

*Ross knew Cheri, and vice versa, and Ross's Brother Tim married Cheri's good Friend, Bonnie

*Ross is a dead ringer for the SFPD sketch of Z

*Ross's own Brother, Tim, thought he was Zodiac

*Some writing matches and habits seem to be a match for Zodiac

*He moved back to Santa Cruz in 1974, the same point that the final letters were mailed.


*He WAS in the bay area around the time of the Z crimes. (Santa Cruz still counts, I'm sure we will verify a better connection)

I personally can't see mailing letters in SF on weekdays, and killing in Vallejo on weekends, driving all the way from Santa Cruz, it's really a lot of driving. While it's possible somebody could drive that far, I personally think Z lived or worked in the immediate area of the SF Bay area. What is it, like 50 miles from Santa Cruz to Vallejo or San fran? We need to link Ross closer to the Z crimes in my opinion.

Also, I think there are some clues surrounding the timing of Ross's Mental health affairs in Santa Cruz. I wish we could learn more about it.

[morf13]

The desktop poem, regarded as a poem, is not particularly morbid. It's not only possible, but in my opinion (which jibes with that of literary experts all over the place) most plausible, to regard the poem as a "suicide fantasy". Which is certainly more morbid, in a general sense, than a poem about flowers or kittens - but it is not sick or twisted, or indicative of murderous tendencies.

Source please

[morf13]

My concern is his size. We have a guy who knew him in high school in the early 60's say he was about 300 lbs. We have him at 6'2"...I think.

When he died in 1977, "Extreme Obesity" is mentioned on his death certificate. While a lot can happened in 10+ years, it would seem Ross was getting larger.

I don't see how, if Ross was Zodiac, he was not described as a very large man....stocky, beefy, blubbery or not. Take the guesses of height and weight out of the picture and to me, he would have still been described as a very large man.

Some will say his size is a "pro"...I believe it is a "con".

The best Judge of Zodiac's height to me would be Fouke, he was looking at Z from ground level. Then again, he was sitting in a patrol car, so I don't know. The Kids saw him from across the street from upstairs, I don't know if they could give a proper height or not. Hartnell was really very tall, and I think he was a bad judge of height due to his being very tall.

Remember, Mageau said Z was beefy or fat, without blubbery. Allan, Ross's schoolmate, said that Ross was very self conscious about his weight and would wear clothes that would hide his size the best he could. Allan also mirrored Mageau's statement about being fat without having rolls, etc.

As far as gaining a lot of weight over a ten year period, take it from me that it can happen. I think I weigh about 80 pounds more than I did 10 years ago. Ross was likely on meds that could have affected his weight one way or another, up or down

[Norse]

Source please

Well, I've already quoted the opinions of literary experts in the CJB desktop thread (from an old discussion on Voigt's forum), but if you insist I could easily get any professor in English literature alive to attest to the fact that the desktop poem is, to put it brutally simple, cliche in terms of its subject matter.

It's a poem about suicide - to put it short and sweet. It certainly is not a poem about murder.

That's what any literary expert would tell you. And if you want sources, I can provide you with hundreds.

It would hardly matter, though. If handwriting analysis is a soft science, literary analysis is...well, there you are.

I can tell you this, however: I would not be very surprised if it should turn out that your run-of-the-mill custodian (point one) and your run-of-the-mill cop (point two) considered that poem to be a whole lot more sinister and "sick" than it actually is.

[morf13]

Source please

Well, I've already quoted the opinions of literary experts in the CJB desktop thread (from an old discussion on Voigt's forum), but if you insist I could easily get any professor in English literature alive to attest to the fact that the desktop poem is, to put it brutally simple, cliche in terms of its subject matter.

It's a poem about suicide - to put it short and sweet. It certainly is not a poem about murder.

That's what any literary expert would tell you. And if you want sources, I can provide you with hundreds.

Well, I don't need hundreds of sources(I wasn't aware that many people have examined it from a writing perspective). Again, it comes down to interpretation or opinion. I personally don't think it reads as suicide related at all.

[Norse]

You're entitled to your opinion, as we all are. Especially when it comes to an opinion about a poem - which can obviously be interpreted in any number of ways.

If you interpret that poem as being NOT about suicide, then I suppose you have your well thought-out reasons for thinking so. I would be interested in hearing what those reasons are, but this is not the thread for it.

[Susie]

Source please

Well, I've already quoted the opinions of literary experts in the CJB desktop thread (from an old discussion on Voigt's forum), but if you insist I could easily get any professor in English literature alive to attest to the fact that the desktop poem is, to put it brutally simple, cliche in terms of its subject matter.

It's a poem about suicide - to put it short and sweet. It certainly is not a poem about murder.

That's what any literary expert would tell you. And if you want sources, I can provide you with hundreds.

It would hardly matter, though. If handwriting analysis is a soft science, literary analysis is...well, there you are.

I can tell you this, however: I would not be very surprised if it should turn out that your run-of-the-mill custodian (point one) and your run-of-the-mill cop (point two) considered that poem to be a whole lot more sinister and "sick" than it actually is.

I don't believe that anyone could tell you exactly what the poem was about except for the person that wrote it. When it comes to something as unique as poety you really need to know the person and their own way of thinking. I personally feel the poem is a fantasy the writer had, maybe it was murder or maybe it was suicide but regardless without talking to and knowing the person no one can tell you exactly what that person was writing about.

It reminds of an interview with Eddie Vedder and he was talking about what the song Alive was really about in comparison to how people interrupted it. It actually had the opposite meaning of what people thought and even Eddie Vedder admitted that he likes the translation better than how he actually meant it.

[morf13]

I don't believe that anyone could tell you exactly what the poem was about except for the person that wrote it. When it comes to something as unique as poety you really need to know the person and their own way of thinking. I personally feel the poem is a fantasy the writer had, maybe it was murder or maybe it was suicide but regardless without talking to and knowing the person no one can tell you exactly what that person was writing about.

It reminds of an interview with Eddie Vedder and he was talking about what the song Alive was really about in comparison to how people interrupted it. It actually had the opposite meaning of what people thought and even Eddie Vedder admitted that he likes the translation better than how he actually meant it.

[/quote][/quote]

That is what I thought. I actually can visualize, a disturbed younger man, with twisted thoughts about a girl he saw in a red dress, and putting hos thoughts to paper(or to wood in this instance )

It's somebody with some sort of interest or knowledge in poetry, they write it in an ironic, dark way.