Zodiackillersite.com

Scandinavian wrote:Very interesting thought actually. The murder does not fit in with the others, so it could be something more personal behind it. Quess the rumor that Stein might have known zodiac comes from the fact that he rode in the front seat with him, something stein never would let someone he diddnt know do.

I do agree that it is an interesting theory that Stine may have known Z; however I can't imagine that Z would have been able to flag down a driver he knew at that exact time and location unless it was planned in advance, which would have been very risky. I have been in San Fran and got a cab in the location they believe Z was picked up and there was no way that I could have known which cab was going to stop. Cell phones obviously were not around, so Z couldn't have called him and asked him to meet him there, so the only way would be if Z planned to meet him or if he flagged down a cab and recognized Paul.

I don't know if Ross was in SF with certainty during 1969. There is heresay he was, but I need proof, not heresay. Therefore, I have no way to know if he could have knew Paul Stine. I think Ross was in mental institutions not of his own free will, as for example, when he trapped the Guy in the phone booth.

To my knowledge it has never been proved that Z rode in the front with Stine. There are several theories which fit the alternative too, i.e. that he rode in the back.

And even if he did ride in the front, it's just an assumption that Stine had to know him for this to take place.

His sister stated at some point that she didn't think he'd let a stranger ride up front, but that's hardly conclusive. We don't know the circumstances, perhaps Z insisted on riding up front and Stine just humored him - it was a short ride after all.

Pure guesswork either way, in my opinion.

I doubt Z knew any of his victims, but anything's possible, of course.

Susie wrote:

Tahoe27 wrote:

Susie wrote:The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn't make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

I respectfully have to disagree with this statement Susie. There are many reasons one could be admitted to a mental hospital--not being a threat to themselves or others. Especially back in the 60's; people were admitted for showing signs of depression. I personally know of someone who was admitted, not due to the fact they would harm themselves, just that family didn't know how to help.

That said, schizophrenia would certainly (and did) constitute one to possibly need a mental hospital, but Ross's brother Jon stated he did not know of Ross being "violent" in any way. That is not to say Ross never was--just that Jon was not aware, so it would seem violence was not part of the reason Ross was institutionalized--if Jon is being truthful.

(Paul Stine was put into a mental hospital by his brother and sister--that has to have lasting resentment..forgiveness sure, but resentment, yes)

That may be true back in the 60s, but I work with a lot of people with mental health and there were times that we would have liked to have them admitted due to them needing intense treatment; however they were not deemed to be threat to themselves or others and therefore we could not. Usually if someone has depression they are admitted because there is a fear they may committee suicide (threat to self) or cause self injurious behaviors (cut self or purposely injure even if not to the point of being life threatening). A minor or person that is conserved can be admitted against there will on what is considered a voluntary basis if the conservator feels it is warenteed; however they still need to provide reasonable allegations regarding why they feel that way. I have never known anyone to be admitted for depression unless it was felt the person may hurt themselves, keep in mind that complete lack of self care (although usually to the extreme) does fall under threat to themselves.

Hi Susie--

I value your expertise. You are certainly more knowledgeable than I when it comes to this subject. I'm just speaking from a personal experience. As you know, some (in past experiments) were admitted with no problems at all and labeled schizophrenic. I'm just saying that while the institution may need to believe there is some sort of threat to admit someone, that "someone" may not actually be in need of being institutionalized. imo.

You should ask Allan about Ross' parents and if it's true they all lived together at Sterling's house after Ross' mother died. I'm still dying to know how she died and what happened to the father.

Tahoe27 wrote:Hi Susie--

I value your expertise. You are certainly more knowledgeable than I when it comes to this subject. I'm just speaking from a personal experience. As you know, some (in past experiments) were admitted with no problems at all and labeled schizophrenic. I'm just saying that while the institution may need to believe there is some sort of threat to admit someone, that "someone" may not actually be in need of being institutionalized. imo.

Things were very bad back in the day when it came to institutions. Please were treated worse than most people could imagine and the experiments they did were terrible. If Ross was Z I wouldn't be surprised that anger linked to what may have happened in a hospital could have lead to some of it. Not justifying it, but the way people were treated was inexcusable. I do understand that they felt that literally locking someone to a chair was the best option for them, but I can only imagine the damage that it did to people. There's a photography book that was put out by a psychologist that snuck a camera into an institution and published what he saw. He was willing to lose his license over it, but ended up winning awards. It’s called Christmas in Purgatory and it’s actually pretty difficult to find and very disturbing. But it helps to show what they did in mental facilities back in the day and it was published in 1966, photos were shot in 1965. This link will lead you to some of the pictures from the book, but I will warn you they can be difficult to look it.

https://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=c ... Q&tbm=isch

It's also possible that Ross lost weight while hospitalized. If you look at the pictures there are many shockingly skinny people in them.

morf13 wrote:I just had a lengthy phone conversation with Allan Silliphant who was the schoolmate of Ross. Allan directed Ross in a movie, a school project called, Dejavu

I will update this thread today as time allows

Morf, this is great work.

A couple other things, Allan said Ross used to where a specific type of shirt, he called it something but I forget the name of it he said it wasn't a windbreaker.

He also said Ross had very full or thick lips, the same lips that we see I'm the sketch.

Lastly, he told me something about Ross's Father that I won't post here, if you want to know what it is, just PM me

morf13 wrote:

Susie wrote:That is great Morf. I'm glad you found another person that was willing to help, even if it is to try and prove he's not Z. I also think it's important to note that the onset of mental illness (especially schizophrenia) tends to around 18 and into the early 20s for males (25 for females). It could be that Ross developed those tendancies after high school, so it would make sense that people that knew him earlier on would not see that side. The fact that he spent time in mental hospitals means that he was deemed to be a threat to himself or others and the fact that he was later conserved adds to that. It doesn't make him a killer but does prove there was reasons for concern.

There are at least a couple profilers who felt Zodiac was a paranoid schizophrenic, just like Ross was

In all respect...

I have said it before, and I'll say it again:

Zodiac was an organized killer, and a very smart one too,indeed showed to be crack proof even though he provided all the LE and experts (and the amature detectives) more material to work with than any other serial killer in history, I presume.

A person suffering from schizophrenia, or any other kind of psychotic diagnosis (especially back then when treatment of psychosis was not very good ), would NEVER EVER be able to pull off a crime history like Zodiac did, it just would not happen!

But a psychopathic personality, or a person with psychopathic traits, that is an entirely different matter, because THAT is IMHO what Zodiac most likely suffered from.

And note, that back then, in tv/video clips and newspaper interviews etc, people involved with the Zodiac investigation, including LE, of ignorance mixed up the two concepts psychopathy and psychosis.

And JFYI I am a registered nurse and have worked with psychiatric patients.


Morf could you please provide a link or copy of those "profilers who felt Zodiac was a paranoid schizophrenic" ?