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Norse wrote:I keep coming back to Morrill's claim - that Z's handwriting wasn't contrived, but "natural" (whatever that means in this context - his writing clearly varies a great deal).

The spacing, I think, is hard to explain as a means to throw anyone off the scent. I think it is "natural" in the sense that he did not consciously opt for it (in order to fool anyone). It's the result of something beyond his control in one way or another - so, yes, if we ever get to see samples of his non-Z writing, I think there's an excellent chance that same, odd spacing will be present in those too.

Hi Norse
Could you, or whomever else, please provide a link to or copy of the news report where Morrill is saying that "Z's handwriting wasn't contrived, but "natural""

I realy would like to see it with my own eyes because I am 99% sure I have read the exact opposite.

"I'm sure this is his natural handprinting, and he was used to using it a lot [...] it is so consistent I don't think he uses script."

San Francisco Examiner, January 30th, 1978.

The article can be found in the FBI files (that's where I came across it) - but I'm sure there's a better copy out there somewhere.

It's in the fifth file, on page 44 (you need to scroll down, as it's not possible to link directly to the page in question):

http://vault.fbi.gov/The%20Zodiac%20Kil ... %2006/view

I completely agree with the synopsis on the style and spacing's being fluent and inherent in Z writing, one day when he is found I am sure all his writings will have these traits... I do like the open 4`s in Ross`s writing and the S`s. Just read in those FBI files that its about the writing speed. Something I have to go back and visit on my own poi writing note, which was written at speed. So it seems the faster you print just to get a note or letter done the more it turns to script and changes its style.
cheers.

Caught something else in Paul's video. Paul correctly points out something in Ross's writing which closely matches Zodiac's. But in the same frame, I've added red arrows to demonstrate a similarity that I see, what I call a 'dinosaur head' on top of the upper case R in both Zodiac's writing and Ross's. See if you agree, I think it clearly has the same shape and design, but the sample of Ross's writing from the SS card is really bad. The bottom of the R's don't look alike, but I wonder if it could be because Z was trying to write fancy in that particular letter? I am wondering if there's a way that I could order a better quality or digital version of Ross's ss application?

The uppercase R is interesting since Zodiac / Riverside letters has a few noticeable variations to it. Even the Bates had to die letters show two different variations.

If Ross was Z, Uppercase R would be the Key letter he would have to be extra careful with.

Ross Top, Riverside Middle, Z Bottom.

Why so many variations? Was Z concerned about an uppercase R?

We need more samples and TBH whilst it's great having the SS Applications to start with they aren't the most reliable things for comparison. For one they are too limited and the quality isn't good enough. Not much we do about quality on anything we can get regarding this case and its age but certainly more of any POI's writing is a must and if possible their natural handwriting rather than official forms.

Ross's handwriting still bothers me. I'm just not seeing it. I can see why you guys wonder about certain aspects of it but honestly unless we get more samples there's no way we can make a fair comparison.

Let me show you what we're up against.



Ok, starting at the top. Those two S's either side of the S in Sullivan. Not bad but not good enough. If you look at his other S's the top half of them are almost block like or square and whilst Zodiac does have some that are close his nearest equivalents are actually the reverse of this. His 'block' section is on the bottom of the S as a habit.

Next one's impressive. The 'flick' bottomed S. Or at least it would be if we hadn't seen it before. In Manalli's writing. So that's a habit but not an exclusive one.

The upper case H' isn't bad. The left descender is slightly longer as are Zodiac's.

The V in Sullivan. Quite good. Rounded bottom with an elevated right hand ascender. This is very much a Zodiac trait.

Upper case A. Mmmmm not sure. Outer shape not bad but I don't think the cross bar is at the right height to be considered a match.

Lower case k in 'unknown'. Not enough to be sure. If the top bar (circled) is consistently foreshortened in Ross's writing as it appears here then no. Not a match. Looks to be a 3 stroke but we have to be really fussy about the details and that second stroke length would be enough for me to rule it out.

The w in New York. This one I like. Flat leading edge into a slightly V shaped first section. Second section U shaped with an elevated ascender to finish. Middle flush to top. Very good.

The Y in New York. Mmmm again pretty good but not conclusive due to sample quality and distortion. Ross's Y is compressed and skewed slightly due to the sample not being flat. Still, it's in the ball park.

Now ....

The N's / n's.

If those are lowercase n's in ross's writing then NO. Not a match. Zodiac's lower case n's consistently start with a descender. i'.e he writes down from his start point to begin the character. Irregardless of style.

If they are upper case N's then whilst the style isn't a match the construction method at least is. Unless you want to count the backward one he put on the back of the Halloween Card to mess with us.

Then we have the 'n' in Ross's signature. It's a construction match (to Z's lower case n's) and a very close style similarity to the Marco letter. But it's a signature. Without more samples that may very well be the only time he does that n.

Ok.

The remainder of the things encircled in red.

The M. Don't like it. Can't find anything in Zodiac's writing that compares.
Lowercase t. Nope. Again no comparisons found.
Curved right hand ascender on the N's. No. Anything close in Z's writing shows a preference for left hand curvature.
S & K already mentioned.

The whole mix of upper and lower case really bothers me. For one thing I don't know if it's a habit (more samples) and if it is then it's most certainly not a Zodiac habit despite popular belief, for some reason. Conclusion? Inconclusive (always wanted to say that lol ) but as I said I'm not convinced ... yet. Despite the similarities it just doesn't 'have that swing'. There's a rhythm and a flow to writing that we unfortunately can't reliably test or even see in these limited samples.

Trav, now I am floored, you pointed out similarities I did not see, but made good points about them. Of course you pointed out differences too, but I am encouraged by multiple similarities. While we have seen some similarities in other people's writing, none of them closely match the sketch and can be placed in the RCC library, so to have a Guy that meets those criterias in addition to having multiple writing similarities, is very encouraging.

Trav, I just don't know how to get more writing samples from Ross but will try.

morf13 wrote:Trav, I just don't know how to get more writing samples from Ross but will try.

Perhaps Allen?

I took out the bit about the uppercase L's. Z does do them but they aren't consistent with Ross's in regards the length of the turn. Sorry about that.