Facts & Evidence - Ted Kaczynski As The Zodiac

[ophion1031]

I agree that Ted does not match Z descriptions, but he could have disguised himself. There is no proof that he wasn't Z. There is no proof that he was Z. I'm one of those "team Zodiac" guys and I know people say Ted would not have been apart of some team because he wasn't known to have friends or work well with others, but it is a possibility. His handwriting is very close to the Belli X-Mass letter and we know about his history with bombs and codes.

[Jarlve]

Is there a way to just ask him? Ted Kaczynski.

[glurk]

Theodore Kaczynski 04475-046
USP FLORENCE ADMAX
U.S. PENITENTIARY
PO BOX 8500
FLORENCE, CO 81226

I think he will probably be at that same address for a while.

-glurk

[PinkPhantom]

Idk why I'm going to do this bc im typically sketched out about having contact with murderers, but for some reason I think I could get through to Ted (with a pseudonym for myself!). I'm gonna try. Who knows if his lawyer will intercept it or not. You never know when somebody may be willing to talk and who they may be willing to talk to.

Thanks Glurk for the address. Lmfao I am pretty sure, as you said, that he will be there for a while

I wonder if I could ever be granted to see/interview him at the penitentiary. I go to Colorado often.

[Titwillo]

Phantom, it would be interesting if you could get in contact with him, or even get some sort of interview like Morf has with some POI's (typed or, better yet, in person). However, and correct me if I am wrong, haven't people contacted Ted before concerning Zodiac (and maybe even EAR/ONS) and he basically blew them all off? Again, my memory may be faulty on this one. His hesitancy to talk about either case can be seen by some as evidence of guilt or involvement, but I don't think so.

I hate to be graphic on here, but IIRC at least one of the surviving EAR victims described their attacker as having an extremely small penis. Not exactly a difficult verification to make, is it? Just drop trou. But I doubt that anyone would use that as a way to identify Ted as EAR/ONS (since they're one in the same). Just pointing out the futility here of trying to damn Ted as him or Z without anything more compelling than circumstantial evidence. And yes, it is circumstantial, and I always wonder about the possibility that Ted was Z/EAR/ONS, as it's a really crazy thing to entertain, but it's all just speculation.

[PinkPhantom]

Well I know AK shows proof here that Ted does reply. He did address the zodiac crimes and said he didn't do them and it was some man who died of natural causes. This may interest the Ross Sullivan crowd if Ted is telling the truth about what he was told happened to the Zodiac since Ross died of natural causes long ago.

However, you never know when someone may be willing to confess and who they confess to. I feel my unique position of being a female and somewhat attractive who shares many of his political ideals (though I don't condone his actions!) might give me an advantage in manipulating him. I studied quite a bit if psych after all. Would be interested in his feelings on a myriad of issues and not just the zodiac crimes. An interest in his general pursuits and ideals will leave him more open to possibly trusting me enough to tell me other lesser known crimes he had committed. I would love to just have a "Hello Clarice" experience with him and profile him though he would undoubtedly be simultaneously profiling me.

I don't see how it could hurt to try.

I also am seeking to obtain a resting Palm print from a TK letter to compare to the resting Palm print of Zodiac's that was obtained from the letters.

I wouldn't doubt TK has a baby dick

[Dreamnine.nine]

Good luck!

I'm not sure about Ted as Z; somehow I doubt it. But I do think there is a high possibility he was the Tylenol killer in both 82 and 86 plus the lone Wisconsin Coca-Cola case in 1984.

[AK Wilks]

I think TK is my fav POI as of yet.
Here is an article just to update AK Wilks' thread here in relation to TK and the psychological studies having messed him up.

http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id=62564

"As a Psych 101 student in college, you may have participated in experiments grad students concocted as part of their research papers or theses. Ted Kaczynski did, and it was so extreme, it may have helped shape the worldview of the man who would later build and send 16 bombs, killing three and injuring 23.
In 1959, 17-year-old Kaczynski was a sophomore at Harvard. He had completed high school at 15, then enrolled at the Ivy League school at an age when most teenagers are cramming for their driver’s license tests.
At this young, impressionable age, the future Unabomber was recruited for a psychological experiment run by famed psychologist Henry A. Murray. But unlike the ones you and I probably participated in during college, the experiment Murray conducted lasted three years.
In it, Kaczynski and 21 other students were told to develop their personal philosophies on life. Then they would debate that philosophy against another undergraduate student. But as it turned out, this was no friendly discourse. When they showed up to debate, the test subjects were attached to electrodes, seated in a chair facing a one-way mirror, and subjected to hot, bright lights. The debate wasn’t with a fellow undergrad at all, but a law student who had been told to go to town on the ideals of these young men. To make matters worse, they then had to watch video of the argument after it was over, which forced them to go through the humiliation all over again. Murray himself called them "vehement, sweeping, and personally abusive" attacks.
Prior to this particular stint at Harvard, Murray worked for the Office of Strategic Services (the OSS, the precursor to the CIA) during WWII, training spies to handle intense interrogation from the enemy. Some experts believe that he simply continued that line of study on unwitting undergrads.
Did having his morals and values ridiculed and abused push Kaczynski over the edge and eventually make him punish those who didn’t believe in his manifesto—including university professors? Or did the brutal psychological study have no effect on Kaczynski at all? Perhaps the future terrorist had social problems long before he stepped into Murray’s office? We may never know—the Murray Center has sealed any files relating to Ted Kaczynski and the results of the experiment he was part of, saying, "We have a very strong policy of maintaining the confidentiality of people who participate in studies archived here. This particular file has been permanently removed, with the reason being that we cannot protect its confidentiality anymore."
- See more at: http://m.mentalfloss.com/article.php?id ... xpkRq.dpuf

Thanks for the info Pink Phantom. We have more material on the MK-ULTRA experiments, both as they affected Ted specifically and more on the larger program in general, here viewtopic.php?f=102&t=2025

[Titwillo]

Good Luck, Pink. I actually just finished John Douglas and Mark Olshaker's book on the hunt for the Unabomber, so for (admittedly!) selfish reasons, I'd love to know what Ted is up to nowadays and where his head may be (both of those factors constrained undoubtedly by his being imprisoned). I actually find myself, having read the Manifesto, agreeing with some of his ideas and disagreeing with others. It's incredible how having such a high level of intellectual capacity can affect a human being.

[AK Wilks]

Well I know AK shows proof here that Ted does reply. He did address the zodiac crimes and said he didn't do them and it was some man who died of natural causes. This may interest the Ross Sullivan crowd if Ted is telling the truth about what he was told happened to the Zodiac since Ross died of natural causes long ago.

However, you never know when someone may be willing to confess and who they confess to. I feel my unique position of being a female and somewhat attractive who shares many of his political ideals (though I don't condone his actions!) might give me an advantage in manipulating him. I studied quite a bit if psych after all. Would be interested in his feelings on a myriad of issues and not just the zodiac crimes. An interest in his general pursuits and ideals will leave him more open to possibly trusting me enough to tell me other lesser known crimes he had committed. I would love to just have a "Hello Clarice" experience with him and profile him though he would undoubtedly be simultaneously profiling me.

AK Wilks: I don't see how it could hurt to try. Remember Ted has an Einstein genius level IQ and beat the best of the FBI repeatedly outsmarting them. I don't think you will get much from him, but why not try? OK by me.

Pink Phantom:
I also am seeking to obtain a resting Palm print from a TK letter to compare to the resting Palm print of Zodiac's that was obtained from the letters.

I wouldn't doubt TK has a baby dick

We are told Ted's prints were compared to cab prints Exorcist letter prints and did not match. Of course hundreds of people use a cab, and most of the letters came up negative for good prints, and any few that were there could be from postal service, police, reporters, lab techs, etc. CCCSD Crime Lab Chief Paul Holes told me doubts they have any real Z prints, and he would not dismiss an otherwise good suspect on the sole basis of a non-match to letter or cab prints.

Sure give it a shot. What political ideals do you think you and Ted share? Because his politics are not what the media generally portrays, so they may not be what you think.

Ted likes his status as a "political prisoner". He is a hero to many in the anarchist primitivists and radical environmental movements. He is discussed by some academics in the same vein as Che, Lenin, Bin Laden, etc. Ted will never admit to being Zodiac. Yes a dwindling few regard Z as a master criminal because he eluded police and created unbreakable codes. But to most Z is a sick serial killer. A sexually frustrated coward who gunned down and stabbed teens and young adults in lovers lanes. No political motivation, just a psycho. So IMO Ted will never admit to being Z, or EAR/ONS (if he is, it is more doubtful) or the Tylenol Killer.

This is what happened when Doug Oswell gave him the opportunity to confirm or disprove he was Zodiac.

AK Wilks:
Many years back Doug Oswell wrote the following letter to Ted Kaczynski asking for proof of an alibi for Zodiac murder and mailing dates. He never got an answer.

Also, an attorney for Ted told a writer that they could not provide an alibi for any of these dates - not that they would not, but that they could not.

The first Unabomber crime was in 1978, yet in the early seventies Ted recorded that he had already engaged in "violent rebellion" against society. In September 1966 Ted recorded the "breakthrough" moment in his life, when he decided to "REALLY kill everyone I hated".(Emphasis in original). The people he hated included "bigshots", scientists, big businessmen, police - but also "rowdy college students" promiscuous women who are "pigs, animals" and "noisy" love making couples.

Had Ted supplied an alibi for any of the key Z dates, that would end speculation about him being Z.

This is the letter:

Mr. Kaczynski:

My name is Douglas Oswell. For the past five years I have been researching the similarities between the Unabomber and a world-renowned criminal styled “Zodiac,” who became a pop-culture icon in the late 1960s through a series of sensational murders and correspondences with the press.

At this juncture I have uncovered no evidence that would forge a definite link between the activities of the Unabomber and those of Zodiac. Authorities at both the state and federal level have written off the likelihood of any such connection. Nevertheless it is undeniable (even by the detractors of a connection) that many similarities exist.

I have been advised that it would be unfair to suggest such a connection without offering you the opportunity to defend the reputation of the Unabomber and the philosophy for which he stood. To that end I would like to present you with a list of dates and ask that you provide accounts of your whereabouts for as many of those dates as possible. A valid alibi for even a single date, backed by documentary evidence, would be sufficient to prove conclusively that there is no linkage whatsoever between the sordid crimes of Zodiac and the more principled (albeit terrible) activities of the Unabomber.

Here is the list of dates in question:

Month
Day
Year

December
20
1968

July
4—5
1969

July
31
1969

August
1—8
1969

September
27
1969

October
11—13
1969

November
8—9
1969

December
20
1969

April
20
1970

April
28
1970

June
26
1970

July
24
1970

July
26
1970

October
5
1970

October
27
1970

March
13
1971

March
22
1971

Alibis for the following dates, while helpful, would not be conclusive in discounting a connection:

Month
Day
Year

June
3—6
1963

February
3—6
1964

October
30
1966

November
1
1966

April
30
1967

October
22
1969

March
22
1970

Please bear in mind that any alibi should be backed either by documentary evidence or the word of a reliable individual. In the latter case I would appreciate receiving from you a letter or letters of introduction that will establish my credibility to any such person.

It is only fair to state that I do not consider your brother, David Kaczynski, to be a reliable individual for the purpose of establishing an alibi. In 1990, based on conversations with your brother, a friend of his wrote a heretofore unpublished novel about “a Berkeley professor’s war with technology.” Within that novel the fictional "Berkeley professor" committed murder to promote his worldview, thus anticipating the actual truth long before the Unabomber entered the public imagination.

Whatever the case, I will publish your response in such a way that it may be freely accessed by any interested person.

There is an advantage to you in this. The entire world is aware that you have risked your life to disprove the notion that the Unabomber’s actions were not philosophically motivated, but simply the result of a deviant or warped psychology. I must frankly tell you that the postulated linkage between Zodiac and the Unabomber has grown and persisted in the past five years. Indeed, it shows signs of strengthening in the years to come. I fear that if this theory is not thoroughly refuted, posterity will know the Unabomber not for his principled stand against technology, but for his similarity to a sick and sordid criminal who murdered minor children to assuage his sexual frustrations and shore up a foundering ego. The Zodiac Killer is widely known as “America’s Jack the Ripper.” The Unabomber is fast becoming the “favorite suspect" in a mystery that, because it remains unsolved, will endure for many years to come. You alone can divest him of that distinction.

I thank you for your attention to this matter and encourage you to respond. Enclosed is a small amount of money ($5.00) to defray the cost of postage and stationery.

Sincerely,
Douglas E. Oswell
-------------------------------------
Doug told me he never got a reply to this letter.

If TK was NOT the Zodiac, it would be so easy for him to blow this whole idea out of the water, by producing a timecard, a paycheck, class attendance sheet, a letter, a postmarked envelope, a photograph, a witness.

Doug told me another writer got a response from Ted's attorney that NO ALIBI for the above dates could be produced. Not wouldn't produce, but could not produce.


Linda

Sounds like the letter must have gotten through if someone got a response from Ted's attorney regarding no alibi being available. I've always found it interesting that in the Unabomber case itself, the period of time from Ted's college years until 1978 seem to be brushed over. If there had been a trial, maybe some more about these years would have come out, but since he plead guilty, these years are presented almost as a blur...

AK WILKS:

onewhoknows asked: "Dear AK have you ever sent a letter to TK and asked him if he is the Zodiac? Just wondering"

AK: I have not yet, but in the first post you can see what happened when Doug Oswell did.

Ted did not respond.

This still cracks me up!

Apparently Ted Kaczynski is the only person left in the world besides Robert Graysmith who thinks Allen was the Zodiac.

Ted relies on the fact that according to him "law enforcement authorities concluded I had no connection with the Zodiac case."

Yep thats Ted, always a big believer in how right the law enforcement authorities are! This from the man who constantly said how stupid police were, who said the "FBI isn't going to catch [me] anytime soon. The FBI is a joke."