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AK Wilks wrote:This sentence:
"Another major point made by the defense was that the government's search warrant affidavit failed to reveal that DNA testing excluded Kaczynski as the source of DNA on two Unabomb letters and probably excluded him as the source of DNA on a third letter."

Is based on a comparison of DNA found on a stamp on a letter from Ted to David to DNA from a stamp on a letter sent by the Unabomber. There was never a DNA draw from Ted himself. I very much doubt the DNA on the Unabomber stamp was from Ted. He was well aware of DNA and outlined a procedure he used for stamps on Unabomber letters. He covered his hands in plastic and would not lick the stamps but dip them in a saucer of water.

I confirmed with the former director of the FBI CODIS program that they never had a sample directly from Ted.

But the FBI records, from Ted's own journals and their analysis, show that he had a very careful procedure he used with ALL stamps he bought, regardless of whether they were to be used on bomb packages, letters to newspapers or to family. This is the procedure, as recounted on p. xxi in the book "Unabomber: A Desire To Kill", by Robert Graysmith:

"The previous night he had specially treated the "O'Neill" stamps along with the others - "Lucy Stone" fifty cent stamps, "Frederick Douglass" twenty five cent stamps and another dollar stamp, "America's Light Fueled by Truth and Reason". THE SOLITARY MAN HAD SOAKED THEM IN SALT WATER, THEN RUBBED THEM WITH SOY BEAN OIL TO ERASE ANY FINGERPRINTS THAT MIGHT HAVE SLIPPED PAST HIS IMPROVISED PLASTIC WRAP "GLOVES" "

Ted never licked stamps or anything else. From 1978 to 1995, the FBI "knew the technophobic bomber never licked labels" or envelope flaps or stamps - but then in 1995 he just "slipped up" and licked a stamp? Graysmith book, pp. 279 and 324. That is highly, highly unlikely. There is a reason the FBI after an 18 year $60 million investigation had a 25,000 person suspect list that did not have Ted's name on it. He simply made very few slips up of any kind, and never made a major mistake. Kaczynski knew all about DNA - he sent a bomb to leading genetic scientist Dr. Epstien and had the name and home address of the inventor of the PCR DNA method, Kary Mullis, on a death list in his cabin. He thought DNA was yet another way the "techno - nerds" would try to control humanity.

We must also consider that the Unabomber case was happening in the time period of the FBI lab scandal. The lab was found to have grossly violated procedures involving contamination. There were proven accusations of incompetence, contamination violations, bias, unsound procedures, and even perjury and out right fabrication. In regards to the Unabomber case specifically, the explosives analysis was grossly unsound and partially fabricated - that is what the Department of Justice Inspector General found. See http://www.usdoj.gov/oig/special/9704a/17unabom.htm . In relevant part:

"Furthermore, the concerns raised by Burmeister about Rudolph's conclusions appear in several instances to be well-founded. The Laboratory did not adequately address these concerns after they were brought to the attention of Mohnal and Laboratory management in September 1995. Rudolph's work on UNABOM displays the same problems of inadequate documentation and conclusions not supported by sufficient data that we noted in the more general discussion in Part Three, Section A above.

A qualified explosives residue examiner should undertake a detailed review of all of Rudolph's UNABOM work before it is used further in the case. In response to a draft of this section of the report, Robert Cleary, a Special Attorney to the U.S. Attorney General, advised the OIG that the Government would not be relying upon any of Rudolph's work in the UNABOM case as part of the prosecution of Theodore J. Kaczyski, who has been indicted on charges related to bombings attributed to the Unabomber. Cleary stated that to the extent the Government will offer explosive residue evidence in the Kaczyski case, it will be relying upon the conclusions of Burmeister and other, non-FBI laboratories."

Thus, the Justice Department agreed NOT to use FBI Lab results because they were so tainted. Lawyers for Kaczynski asserted it was "impossible" for the FBI to have obtained his DNA. In regards to DNA, this is what the writers of a book on the lab scandal found:

"The IG follow-up report dealt only with the explosives unit. But since the publication of our book in the United States, we have investigated the operations of the DNA unit which the IG claimed was a model of scientific integrity. We found that the original IG investigation discovered quite the contrary. That the DNA unit was seriously negligent, but the IG covered up this finding. We discovered that Drs. Greg Parsons and Martin Alevy of the DNA unit had refused to testify on behalf of the FBI because they felt the DNA testing could be faulty, unreliable, and inaccurate. They felt so strongly about this that they left the lab to resume being street agents with a cut in pay and rank.

The head of the DNA unit, Dr. Jenifer Lindsey Smith, and her subordinates totally botched the DNA testing in the Unabomber case such that the prosecution would not have been able to use the results if Unabomber suspect Ted Kaczynski had gone to trial. Smith did not even bother to obtain a sample of Kaczynski's actual DNA, and an FBI affidavit lied that there was a match found between the Unabomber's DNA and Kaczynski's DNA. "

Tainting Evidence: Inside the Scandal at the FBI Crime Lab, John Kelly and Phillip K Wearne

In short, there is very good reason to doubt that Kaczynski DNA is on any Unabomber stamp or personal stamp. And we now know that Kaczynski DNA frrom his body has never been put into CODIS. Federal law requires all convicted prisoners in federal custody to have DNA taken. Yet it has never happened. Kaczynski has never had DNA drawn from his body. So nobody knows what it is, and it may or may not match DNA in the Zodiac, Tylenol or other cases.

There are persons in law enforcement trying to make it happen, but there is a lot more politics and red tape involved than I thought.

ZCatcher wrote:Last night (Fri., Nov. 14, 2014) on the "Coast To Coast" a.m. radio show Tom Voigt & the great host, Richard Syrett had a great interview about the Zodiac case. Richard spoke about the possibility of Ted being The Zodiac. But Tom said he'd been eliminated thru physical evidence not just once, but twice: First by local cops, and then by the FBI. He said this physical evidence was fingerprints and/or DNA.

I've read lots of posts here about the controversy of comparing Ted's DNA to the Zodiac's, but I don't remember anything definitive.

Sorry if I'm behind on this, but WAS Ted eliminated by DNA and/or fingerprints?

snooter wrote:
...the prints in the cab have lead no where because they are of no value...toschi and his 10 gallon swelled head would have made arrest if he could have...he did not...that speaks volumes about the prints lifted from that cab...

Norse wrote:

snooter wrote:
...the prints in the cab have lead no where because they are of no value...toschi and his 10 gallon swelled head would have made arrest if he could have...he did not...that speaks volumes about the prints lifted from that cab...

Could be that the prints have led nowhere because they've never been compared to those of the killer. I mean, it is possible - right?

What Toschi did or didn't do, doesn't say anything about the quality of the prints. The fact is that SFPD did clear Allen, for instance, based on those prints. Vallejo remained interested in him until after his death - but that is a different matter. As far as SFPD were concerned, Allen was cleared - and he was cleared based on handwriting AND fingerprints (and DNA, it would appear, for that matter).

So, who knows - right? It would be so much easier if we had a set of prints everyone was 100% satisfied about. As it stands, though, it has never been proved that SFPD had serious doubts about the cab prints. On the contrary, it seems that they were certain about at least a couple of those prints - and used them to rule out suspects, including Allen.

Norse wrote:I'm not sure what you're saying here, snooter: SFPD has no case against whom? Against an unknown subject? How can you have a case against an unknown subject?

The fact that the evidence in the Stine case has not led to Z's arrest is not - in and of itself - proof that said evidence is no good. That simply isn't a logical conclusion in my opinion.

Apologies if I have misunderstood your point.

AK Wilks wrote:When I talked to Paul Holes, Crime Lab Chief of the CCCSD, which does contractual forensic services for Vallejo, he told me none of the cab prints match each other, none match to any of the possible prints from elsewhere in the Zodiac case and none have ever matched to a person.