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EndOfTheWorld wrote:"You would HAVE to think it's fictitious if you think Ted was the Zodiac." Why? The story is they were traveling around the entire western US, and Canada. California is one of the places they were looking, if I remember correctly. It's only natural that Ted would want to show his brother around the bay area a little since they were basically two close brothers traveling around. You'd assume that sight seeing, maybe a little skirt chasing, who knows what all was included under the rubric of "traveling around looking for land." I'm not an expert on the life of Ted K, but as far as I know David was his only friend close enough to take a trip like this with.

Because if it is NOT fictitious then David would have had to have known about it. Lots happened in the summer of 1969 and if Ted was pulling all this off and David was with him, David would have had to have known.

So, if you believe David's version of their time spent together in 1969, you must be considering him an accomplice--it is the only way to justify it.

(Aside of AK's explanation of possibilities)

Well, he was either an accomplice by remaining silent or an accomplice by physically aiding and abetting, or it's possible that Ted slipped away for the murders, maybe when David was checking out some real estate alone. I mean there's a lot we don't know about this trip, like: (1) Was there actually a trip?; (2) If there was a trip, where did they go and on what dates?; and (3) Were they ever separated? If David made up this story about the trip or if he "accidentally on purpose" GOT THE YEAR WRONG, he's also guilty of covering up for a murderer. That is, if Ted was the Z. For a smart graduate of an ivy league college, David's memory seems to be suspiciously poor. Like maybe he knows a lot more than he's telling, but he's playing dumb.

It wasn't just murders though. There were letters, a costume, a variety of weapons. Zodiac was reading newspapers--starting with the Vallejo papers--not so widely available as the SF Chronicle. They would have had to spend months in the Bay Area.

I mean, really, the only explanation that would be plausible is AK's. If it can be proven this trip happened in 1969, I'd say no dice for Mr. K.

OK, I see what you're saying. Well, to the best of my knowledge nobody can say where Ted K was after he quit his job. One thing about David, though-----the FBI loved him. He brought in the Unabomber on a silver platter. Therefore, they weren't going to subject any story David spouted to unnecessary scrutiny, probably. And, we don't know what deals, if any, were made. The similarities in messing with the press, and handwriting as well, make TK a strong suspect. I don't necessarily want to accuse his little brother of anything without proof, but I just threw out the possibility of David possibly helping Ted out in some of his Zodiac activities. David looks a little like this composite at the top of this page, but I guess a lot of guys look like that.

David did travel with Ted in 1969 to look for land "out west" (from a Chicago perspective). However when David was quoted as saying it took place "in the summer of 1969", that was true, but it did not take place the entire summer of 1969, it was just for a few weeks in late August 1969 to early September 1969. One of these days Im going to do what Doranchal and others suggested, do a complete TK and Z timeline, to show how they match up.

The last Z activity of Aug 1969 was mailing a letter on Aug 3rd, the next Z activity was the September 27, 1969 Lake Berryessa murder. Ted's last day of work at Berkeley was June 30, 1969. So the period of travel with Ted and Dave took place in late Aug and early September, meaning no conflict with Z activities, meaning it is not necessary for David to have been an accomplice or have guilty knowledge of Ted's Z activities. I have sources and cites for the travel time, will try to find and post them this week.

One very interesting fact: Zodiac said on 9/27/69 to Bryan Hartnell that he had escaped from "Deer Lodge, Montana", an obscure but beautiful small town that has a state prison. How many people in California would have heard of that town, and why would it be on their minds that they would mention it? I think the number would be very small. But Ted had just driven through or by this tiny town in the middle of nowhere with his brother weeks earlier, and he remarked how beautiful an area it was. It made such an impression that it was within an hour of where Ted would buy the cabin he would live in the rest of his life.

Yeah, that specific town "Deer Lodge" is mentioned, I believe in the DOJ report. Hartnell originally told that to the police, is that correct? Yet you still have people on these threads who will say: "He never said 'Deer Lodge. He just mentioned the state of Montana'" Well, which is it? That's what I mean when I say it looks almost like intentional attempts at disinformation sometimes when you bring up TK as a suspect.

Why some people spread misinformation or disinformation, I don't know. In terms of the boards, you have personalities, politics, agendas, money, and POI blinders. In terms of government agencies, you have politics, red tape, bureaucratic inertia, POI blinders, as well as possible cover ups of facts that could be embarrassing.

But Hartnell definitely reported Z said "escaped from prison in Deer Lodge, Montana. "

Anyone can read the reports. Hartnell at first did not say that. "Lodge" was mentioned, but at the suggestion of another cop and then, Hartnell confirms it.

The debates arise from reports, not from ulterior motives.

"Fern or Feathers"...."Fern Lock" - Hartnell
"It was Lodge"... - J.R.
"Oh yeah..yeah, at least we know we are together on that" - Hartnell
"Mountain Lodge Prison, or something of that nature...." - J.R.

http://www.zodiackiller.com/HartnellInterview3.html

and still here - ? Lodge.... It was written by someone (possibly Deer Lodge) MT....like they had looked up possible prisons. It was never a sure thing!

http://www.zodiackiller.com/LBReport24.html

Yes but on the prior page BH reports Z said "I just got out of prison in Montana. ..". Then BH reports Z gave the name of the prison and it was "a double name...like Fern Lock...", then the officer says "Deer Lodge", which is the name of the prison in Montana, and BH agrees. Police subsequently looked into any recent escapees from Deer Lodge Prison.

So like many witness reports of traumatic incidents, there are some issues of memory of the exact words, at first. But looking at the whole report and all the information, it seems pretty clear BH remembered Z saying "I just escaped from the prison in Deer Lodge, Montana. "

AK Wilks wrote:Yes but on the prior page BH reports Z said "I just got out of prison in Montana. ..". Then BH reports Z gave the name of the prison and it was "a double name...like Fern Lock...", then the officer says "Deer Lodge", which is the name of the prison in Montana, and BH agrees. Police subsequently looked into any recent escapees from Deer Lodge Prison.

So like many witness reports of traumatic incidents, there are some issues of memory of the exact words, at first. But looking at the whole report and all the information, it seems pretty clear BH remembered Z saying "I just escaped from the prison in Deer Lodge, Montana. "

From what I read, It is just "Lodge"...never "Deer Lodge".....the officer actually said "Mountain Lodge".

I am not denying it could have been Deer Lodge that was mentioned by their attacker...just clarifying what the report reads.

I think to say "definitely" (anything) when it comes to this case is a reach.