Mr lowe wrote:Mostly he used a closed 4 .. He ain't the "Z"
Mostly is not always. People change some handwriting elements over time. Whoever Zodiac was he might have changed some elements. And with all due respect, it makes little sense to look at ONE single handwriting trait and dismiss a good suspect on that sole basis! If you don't like Ted as a suspect that is fine. Many others do, many don't. We have sections for all the major suspects here and many non-POI threads on other topics. I welcome intelligent and detailed criticisms, comments and questions.
Ted and Zodiac did share many, many handwriting quirks, including both usually doing 3 stroke "k" 's, 5 stroke "m" 's, checkmark "r" 's, overall similar precise style and spacing, PLUS many shared words and phrases.
GRAPHICS AND RESEARCH BY AK WILKS AND AWESHUCKS - A HANDWRITING COMPARISON - ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI
From Doug Oswell, the Application Bio by Kaczynski to the U Cal Berkeley, December 1966.
The writing looks particularly Zodiac like to me, compare it to the Belli letter.
A COMPARISON OF SHARED WORD USAGE, PHRASES AND STYLES BY THE ZODIAC AND KACZYNSKI (MOSTLY BY DOUG OSWELL AND A FEW BY AK WILKS)
Z = Zodiac K = Kaczynski/UnabomberZ = I hope you enjoy your selves when I have my
Blast. Jolly Roger Card.
K = For these reasons, I want to get my revenge in one big
blast. GX18-2003F, p. 11.
Z = At the moment the children are safe from the bomb because it is so massive to dig in & the
triger mech requires much work to get it adjusted just right. Belli Letter, 1969.
K = Its no fun having to spend all your evenings and weekends preparing dangerous mixtures, filing
trigger mechanisms out of scraps of metal .... New York Times Letter, 1995.
Z = I gave the cops som
bussy work to do to keep them happy. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.
K = This seems to us a thoroughly contemptible way for the human race to end up, and we doubt that many people would find fulfilling lives in such pointless
busy-work. Unabomber Manifesto, 1995.
Z = This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass at Lake Herman & the girl on the 4th of July near the golf course in Vallejo.
To prove I killed them I shall state some facts which only I & the police know. Three-Part Cipher, 1969.
K =
To prove that we are the ones who planted the bomb at U. Of Cal. last May we will mention a few details that could be known only to us and the FBI who investigated the incident. S.F. Examiner Letter, 1985.
Z =
The police shall never catch me, because I have been too clever for them. Seven-Page letter, 1969.
K = And it
doesn't appear that the FBI is going to catch us any time soon. New York Times letter, 1995.
Z =
2 cops pulled a goof. Seven-Page letter, 1969.
K =
The FBI is a joke. New York Times letter, 1995.
Z = As of yet I have left no fingerprints behind me
contrary to what the police say. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.
K =
Contrary to what the FBI has suggested, our bombing at the California Forestry Association was in no way inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing. New York Times Letter, 1995.
Z =
This is the murderer of the 2 teenagers last Christmass ... July 31, 1969 Letter (Chronicle).
This is the Zodiac speaking. Numerous correspondences, 1969 through 1971.
K =
This is a message from the terrorist group FC. New York Times Letter, April 24, 1995.
This is a message from FC. Tom Tyler Letter, June 30, 1995.
Z = I promised to punish them if they did not comply, by anilating a full School Buss. But now school is out for the summer,
so I punished them in another way. Mt. Diablo Letter, 1970.
K = The people who are pushing all this growth and progress garbage
deserve to be severely punished. New York Times Letter, 1995.
Z = By the way it could be
rather messy if you try to bluff me. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.
K = A special case of Theorem (b) was proved (in effect) in [6, proof of Theorem 6] by means of a
rather messy lemma. T.J. Kaczynski. Boundary Functions and Sets of Curvilinear Convergence for Continuous Functions. Transactions of the American Mathematical Society, Vol. 141 (Jul., 1969), 107-125, p. 124.
Z = [Called a violent movie] "
deplorable".
K = [Called OKC bombing] "
deplorable".
The ones above are some that I considered most compelling and a few of my own. The entire list and analysis by Doug Oswell is excellent and can be seen here:
http://www.unazod.com/style.htmlI do think the shared word usage of Kaczynski and Zodiac is remarkable, and unlike what we see in any other Z suspect.
LINDA: In addition to yours above, some others that I find quite compelling from Doug's list are:
1. Both use the word "So" to begin several of their thoughts.
2. Both use the phrase "By the Way" to begin several of their thoughts.
3. Use of "is is" in sentences.
4. Both use the words "To prove" at the beginning of sentences followed by information
they felt provided proof of authenticity
5. Both draw a full line across the page to separate thoughts.
Interestingly, it was his writings that lead to the downfall and capture of the Unabomber. His cleverness of hiding his true identity and remaining obscure for 18 years began to unravel once his demand for publication of his Manifesto was agreed upon by authorities. Once published in the papers, his brother recognized what he thought could be his brother’s thoughts and certain phrases and finally, through legal counsel, notified authorities that he felt there was a great possibility that his brother was, in fact, the elusive Unabomber. Since TK was a prolific writer, authorities were provided with numerous known samples of his writings (letters, documents, papers, etc.). Comparisons were made of known Unabomber writings with known Kaczynski writings in a manner similar to the one Doug has presented on his site when comparing the Zodiac and TK.
Jem wrote:Z - misspells words, probably intentionally in most cases. Examples of last consonant in word changed to a vowel in the Z408.
TK - encodes "yesterday" as YESTERDAE.
JEM you ROCK!
Zodiac 408 Code: DANGEROUE
Unabomber Code: YESTERDAE
Both Zodiac and Kaczynski have a code in which in order to increase difficulty of solution they change the last consonant in a word to the vowel "E".
DANIEL GILLOTTI: I don’t have anything to add to this at this time. I wanted to say nice job…. this is very good work here. Jem, Linda, AK…awesome…
Daniel…
Thanks Dan and Cimm! And thanks to Jem and Linda!
Picking up on a discussion started by WRENCH at zkf, it was noted that the lines in the bus bomb diagram are LONG - SHORT - LONG, and that this is Morse Code for the letter "K".
Hmm, any Zodiac suspect last name start with the letter "K"?
Look at a Ted Kaczynski bomb design and a Zodiac bomb design.
Also, look at the part of the bus bomb diagram where it says "
BUS GOES BANG."
Compare to Ted Kaczynski saying "
RIFLE GOES BANG."
Identical construction...saying an object "goes bang."
And remember both Kaczynski and Zodiac used many of the same odd words and phrases, like "AROUND IN THE SNOW".
----------------------------------------
WHEN NON-VIOLENCE IS SUICIDE
By Ted Kaczynski
It’s the autumn of 2025 AD. The technoindustrial system fell apart a year ago, but you and your friends are doing alright. Your garden has flourished this past summer and in your cabin you have a good supply of dried vegetables, dried beans and other foodstuffs to get you through the coming winter. Just now you’re harvesting your potatoes. With your spades, you and your friends uproot one potato after another and pick the plump tubers out of the soil.
Suddenly the friend at your elbow nudges you and you look up. Uh-oh. A gang of mean-looking men is coming up your trail. They have guns. They look like trouble, but you stand firm. The leader of the gang walks up to you and says,
"Nice looking potatoes you got there."
"Yeah," you reply. "They’re nice-looking potatoes."
"We’re going to take them" says the gang leader.
"The hell you are!" you answer. "We spent a long summer of hard work growing those potatoes…"
The gang leader points his rifle at your face and says, "—— you, punk." To his men he adds, "Dick, Ziggy, check the cabin and see what kind of food they got. We might just move in and spend the winter here. Mick, grab that bitch over there before she gets away. She got a nice ass. We’ll all screw her tonight."
You get angry and start shouting, "You bastard! You can’t…"
The
RIFLE GOES BANG. You’re dead.
----------------------
In the Bates confession letter, it says "This letter should be published for all to read it. It just might save that girl in the alley.
BUT THAT WILL BE UP TO YOU. IT WILL BE ON YOUR CONSCIENCE, NOT MINE".
In the Kaczynski Utah letter it says "When I contact my new friend summer of 1988 and he tells me you have kept your nose clean you will have nothing to fear.
IN OTHER WORDS, YOUR FATE IS IN YOUR OWN HANDS."
In both letters, the criminal puts the responsibility to the reader "That will be up to you" and "Your fate is in your own hands". The criminal tells the reader what to do "publish this letter" and "keep your nose clean". If they don't the threat is there for more murders, but it is up to the reader.
Very unusual, very specific and very similar.
We all know that Ted Kaczynski eluded capture as the Unabomber for 18 years, and that the FBI had a 25,000 name suspect list that did not include his name. But Ted Kaczynski's downfall, what led to his capture, was that he used certain very specific and odd words and phrases that virtually no one else used. David Kaczynski recognized these words and phrases used by the Unabomber as ones that his brother Ted had used. This included the phrase "cool headed logician." It also included Ted's unique phrasing of the old cliche "You can't have your cake and eat it too" as "You can't eat your cake and have it too."
Similarly, when we look at the words and phrases of the Zodiac, many very specific and unusual, we see that Ted Kaczynski often used these exact same odd words and phrases. This first example was discussed first by Doug Oswell, Linda and Kite, but I don't think it has been examined in depth.
Six months after the abduction and presumed murder of Nevada resident Donna Lass, the Zodiac sent in a card thought to hint at her murder. The card included the very odd phrase "
AROUND IN THE SNOW". The card seems to imply that the dead body of Donna Lass can be found
AROUND IN THE SNOW.
The phrase is odd. Normally we might expect to hear that a body is "IN THE SNOW", or "ON THE SNOW", or "OUT IN THE SNOW".
Thus the term "
AROUND IN THE SNOW" is very unusual. [Patinky and others have said this term is used in Kentucky].
In his new book
Technological Slavery, on page 400, Ted Kaczynski discusses hunting rabbits and states that after shooting a rabbit it can be found bouncing "
AROUND IN THE SNOW."
Both the Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski use the odd term "AROUND IN THE SNOW" to refer to where a body may be found.There are many, many other examples.
Zodiac: Police should have "sat there quietly waiting for me to come out of
cover." Zodiac Stine Letter, October 13, 1969, to SF Chronicle.
Kaczynski: "I went down there and watched, from
cover, a guy with a bulldozer...".
Unabomber: The Secret Life of Ted Kaczynski, by Chris Waits and Dave Shors, p. 278.
Analysis: Both Zodiac and Kaczynski descibe hiding from and watching enemies behind forestry as from "
cover", a military term.
Zodiac: "was a negro about 40 -45 rather
shabbly dressed." Zodiac Letter of August 4, 1969, to SF Examiner.
Kaczynski: "their homes looked
shabby".
Technological Slavery, p. 397.
Zodiac:
BE SURE TO PRINT the part I marked out on page 3 or I shall do my thing.
Kaczynski:
BE SURE TO tell us where and how our material will be published and how long it will take to appear in
PRINT once we have sent in the manuscript.
Z = 2
cops pulled a
goof. Seven-Page letter, 1969.
K = The
FBI is a
joke. New York Times letter, 1995.
Z = As of yet I have left no fingerprints behind me
contrary to what the police say. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.
K =
Contrary to what the FBI has suggested, our bombing at the California Forestry Association was in no way inspired by the Oklahoma City bombing. New York Times Letter, 1995.
Z = By the way it could be
rather messy if you try to bluff me. Seven-Page Letter, 1969.
K = A special case of Theorem (b) was proved (in effect) in [6, proof of Theorem 6] by means of a
rather messy lemma. T.J. Kaczynski. Boundary Functions and Sets of Curvilinear Convergence for Continuous Functions. Transactions of the American Mathematical Society, Vol. 141 (Jul., 1969), 107-125, p. 124.
Z = [Called a violent movie] "
deplorable".
K = [Called OKC bombing] "
deplorable".
Both commented on their bounties.
Zodiac: 'I am mildly cerous as to how much money you have on my head now?' and 'What is the price tag now?'.
Kaczynski: '25,000 dollar reward offered. Rather flattering.'
People will tell me sometimes "Oh here is a person who said "rather messy", and sometimes I say "no longer", and someone else said "around in the snow". What is interesting is that both Zodiac and Ted Kaczynski used dozens and dozens of the same words and phrases, and some are not very common, like "rather messy", "around in the snow", "contrary to what police say", "evidence only I and police know", etc. Some new finds by KITE:
I don't know if this has been brought up before or not but Kaczynski wrote, concerning the price of a Christmas card:
(I bet it doesn't cost them a nickel to print the
damn thing.)
Zodiac wrote:
(When I hung the phone up the
dam thing began to ring and that drew his attention to me and my car.)
Here's an interesting comparison between a Unabomber letter(4/24/95) and a Zodiac letter(11/9/69, 7 pages).
Zodiac: (I shall
NO LONGER ANNOUNCE to anyone when I comitt my murders)
FC: Why do we
ANNOUNCE our goals only now...
FC: Since we
NO LONGER have to confine the explosive...
Zodiac: the system checks out from one end to the other in my
TESTS.
Zodiac:I think you do not have the man power to stop this one by continually
SEARCHING THE road sides looking
FOR this thing.
Zodiac: Have
FUN!! By the way, it could be rather messy if you try to bluff me.
FC: It's no
FUN having to spend all your evenings and weekends preparing dangerous mixtures, filing trigger mechanisms out of scraps of metal or
SEARCHING THE Sierras
FOR a place isolated enough to
TEST a bomb. So we offer a bargain.
Zodiac:
BE SURE TO PRINT the part I marked out on page 3 or I shall do my thing.
FC:
BE SURE TO tell us where and how our material will be published and how long it will take to appear in
PRINT once we have sent in the manuscript.
QueenOfClews wrote:
I am curious to know if there is any possibility that TK was actually influenced by Zodiac, or if there is good evidence to show that his use of similar words and phrases predates the Zodiac case.
That is an excellent question. I will give more info later this weekend, here are my first thoughts:
1. Was TK the Zodiac, or was he influenced by the Zodiac? In the thousands of pages of Ted's notes and journals that we have seen, he never mentions the Zodiac. He does mention Charles Whitman, and the OKC bomber, but not Zodiac. Despite the fact that Ted lived in the SF Bay area when Z was active, and despite Ted and Z having a shared interest in bombs, codes and killing people. The FBI will not release Ted's journals for the most active Zodiac years of of 1968 and 1969. But from what we know, Ted was not influenced by the Zodiac, he never acknowledges being influenced by the Zodiac. Just like the diary of Bruce Wayne would not mention Batman...
2. In some cases, the words of Z predate the words of Ted. Like the use of "contrary to what police say..". But in most of these instances, the words by Zodiac would not be the type that someone like Ted or anyone would copy. It just seems like Ted uses the same words or identical or near identical phrases like "contrary to what police say", "known only by police/FBI and I/us", "trigger mech", etc. I do not see any other suspect having used these words and phrases. To patinky/stitch's point, while someone else may use "around in the snow" or other words, I have not found an individual other than Ted who uses 30 or more words and phrases that Zodiac used.
3. In many cases, Ted used the words, phrases or images FIRST, before Zodiac did. This is the case with "rather messy" and many others. And Ted used crossed lines in a circle as a signature BEFORE Zodiac did.
KACZYNSKI INTEREST IN CROSSED LINES INSIDE CIRCLES Just like the zodiac, Kaczynski used crossed lines inside circles as a signature and drew crossed lines inside a circle at a crime scene.Kaczynski had a life long interest in, almost obsession with, crossed lines inside circles.
1. He signed a yearbook with his "mark" - crossed lines inside a circle.
2. He spent several years of graduate study and his PHD dissertation on the boundary functions of circles, in particular dealing with the unit circle, which looks like the Zodiac symbol.
3. At the campus of a Unabomber target, he spraypainted the Yggdrasil symbol, also known as the Algiz Rune, along with the letters "FC" and "Anarchy". The Anglo-Saxon translation of the Algiz Rune is "Z"! It consists of, once again, crossed lines inside a circle. The Yggdrasil is the World Tree, but it also stands for "tree of terror; gallows", and the Algiz Rune also means to "wound severely; to mark with blood."
And a close up on his signature with the crossed lines inside a circle.
Close up on Unit Circle, Zodiac Symbol and Unabomber Symbols
